Province of Carolina

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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15 August 2013 11:25
 

Many will be familiar with the arms on the seal of the Lords Proprietors of Carolina (late 17th-early 18th centuries):

http://www.palmettohistory.org/exhibits/GreatSeals/images/Obverse.jpg

 

which have been discussed several times on our forums.

 

I’ve just finished an emblazonment for the REAA (Roll of Early American Arms), with my best guess as to tinctures, given that the wax seal has no indication of them.  I assumed an argent field and proper cornucopiae:

 

http://www.americanheraldry.org/pages/uploads/Roll/carolina.gif

 

I wonder if members think I overstepped with this conjecture.  I did a black and white version as well and can replace the image on the REAA if people think that more appropriate.

 

(For those engaged in the great Facebook artwork debate—this is my own original work, hand-drawn, scanned, and digitally manipulated to include the addition of an invisible watermark.  The drawing only took about 15 minutes, but you can have a photo-reproduction on genuine high-quality faux parchemin for only $1000 plus shipping, handling, and processing.)

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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15 August 2013 12:37
 

Joseph McMillan;100234 wrote:

I wonder if members think I overstepped with this conjecture.  I did a black and white version as well and can replace the image on the REAA if people think that more appropriate.


I think the disclaimer, along with the link, in the notes is sufficient. Also, I can’t imagine that they’d have done cornucopiae that were a specific tincture rather than proper. That would seem to defeat the purpose of the charge and doesn’t make any sense to me.

 
 
arriano
 
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arriano
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15 August 2013 16:41
 

I agree. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a cornucopia in heraldry that wasn’t proper. The tincture of the shield itself could be something other than argent. I assume these arms would have been granted by the English College of Arms and therefore there’s a record somewhere.

 
Jeffrey Boyd Garrison
 
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Jeffrey Boyd Garrison
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15 August 2013 16:55
 

Better to err in favor of an Argent field than say… Sable. Am I right? :p

(also, can I order three of these, just put it on my tab)

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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15 August 2013 17:08
 

From Great seal of the state of North Carolina: 1666-1909 by J. Bryan Grimes:


Quote:

These high functionaries thought proper to adopt for this imperial domain a seal, of which no official description has been found, but is to be seen in the Public Records Office in London. The obverse has a shield bearing on its face two cornucopias crossed, filled with the products and having for supporters, on the sinister side, an Indian chief holding an arrow. On the dexter is an Indian squaw with a pappoose by her side and one in her arms. These natives, I imagine, are supposed to be bringing tribute. The crest is a stag upon a wreath above a helmet from which there is a mantling. On the scroll below the shield is the motto, DOMITUS CULTORIBUS ORBIS. Around the shield are the words MAGNUM SIGILLUM CAROLINAE DOMINORUM. On the reverse is a disc bearing a cross, around which are arranged the coats-of-arms of the Lords Proprietors in the following order: Clarendon, Albemarle, Craven, John Berkeley, Cooper, Carteret, William Berkeley and Colleton. The size is 3 3/8 inches in diameter, and was made by placing together two wax cakes with tape between before being impressed, and was about 1/4 inch thick. This seal was used on all the official papers of the Lords Proprietors for Carolina, embracing North and South Carolina.


It is possible that there is no tincture in as much as this coat of arms probably only ever existed in the form of a seal. In which case I say Argent is most likely correct.

 
 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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15 August 2013 17:12
 

If you’re so inclined you can get a Christmas tree ornament of the reverse of the seal from the North Carolina Museum of History.

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/nc-history_2268_2108165

 
 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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15 August 2013 19:53
 

I’ve opted to go with just the line drawing with the notation "tinctures not indicated." Probably the more scholarly option.

http://www.americanheraldry.org/pages/uploads/Roll/carolina1.gif

 

http://www.americanheraldry.org/pages/index.php?n=Roll.C

 
Derek Howard
 
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Derek Howard
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16 August 2013 10:43
 

I was going to comment on the ribbing of the cornucopiae and suggest that, as the name suggests, it should be smoother and more horn like albeit showing the twists of a goats horn can be quite impressive.

However, before I posted I thought to look up Wikipedia as the fount of all knowledge and found, to my surprise, not only the smooth hornier version illustrated but also a fine example of one made from bread http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornucopia, which example, being from America and for thanksgiving, is perhaps more appropriate as well as nearer to Joe’s illustration.

 

Otherwise, as always, excellent work.

 
Alexander Liptak
 
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Alexander Liptak
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18 August 2013 05:00
 

I much prefer the coloured version. Heraldry is vibrant, and we should present it as such.