Looking at the context of the motto : according to the following sources
- http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924028784738/cu31924028784738_djvu.txt
it accompanied an image of St George, and the dragon represented "the heathenism of the Indians" (sic). That rather suggests that the Virginia Company felt it had a Divinely ordained obligation (fas) to slay/conquer/overcome (superare) this "dragon" by evangelisation. King James evidently thought otherwise when he vetoed the motto.
As the motto was never approved and taken into use, there may not have been a definitive English translation of it. As Daniel says, the "worthwhile" translation seems way off the mark.
Thanks to all. Might a reasonable rendering be "Another dragon must be conquered"?
Dcgb7f;97783 wrote:
In this case, the est has been omitted
Well, sure, if they’re going to start leaving out words, then I we’ll have difficulty in translating it, now won’t we :p
Thanks for helping us out, Daniel!
Arthur Radburn;97784 wrote:
it accompanied an image of St George, and the dragon represented "the heathenism of the Indians" (sic). That rather suggests that the Virginia Company felt it had a Divinely ordained obligation (fas) to slay/conquer/overcome (superare) this "dragon" by evangelisation.
That, I think, is the best explanation for the use of "another" in the motto. It’s good to know the context; I would never have guessed that.
"Another dragon must be conquered"—- I like this translation… perhaps the closest natural sounding rendering of the original Latin we’re going to get in English.
Thanks again!
Dcgb7f;97789 wrote:
"Another dragon must be conquered"—- I like this translation… perhaps the closest natural sounding rendering of the original Latin we’re going to get in English.
"must be" is certainly closer in spirit to "fas" than "is worthwhile".
Another Latin question: I assume IUDICA DOMINE CAUSA MEAM means "God judge my cause." But the source I’m working from is an unclear image with some letters obscure—is the conjugation, etc, correct? Thanks.
The verb form is correct (2nd per sing command), and Domine is rightly in the vocative ("O God"). "Causa" is missing an "m" at the end to designate it’s the object of the judging (accusative case).
All in all, it’s pretty close to Ps 42(43): Judica me Deus, et discerne causam meam…
Thanks very much, Daniel. I’ll fix the emblazonment. To be unveiled soon-ish—there’s some complicated drawing to be done.
Joseph McMillan;100631 wrote:
Another Latin question: I assume IUDICA DOMINE CAUSA MEAM means "God judge my cause." But the source I’m working from is an unclear image with some letters obscure—is the conjugation, etc, correct? Thanks.
Dcgb7f;100638 wrote:
The verb form is correct (2nd per sing command), and Domine is rightly in the vocative ("O God"). "Causa" is missing an "m" at the end to designate it’s the object of the judging (accusative case).
All in all, it’s pretty close to Ps 42(43): Judica me Deus, et discerne causam meam…
Not to be pedantic, but Domine is more properly "O Lord" than "O God."
Alexander Schrenk;100648 wrote:
Not to be pedantic, but Domine is more properly "O Lord" than "O God."
Yes, of course. My goof.
Got another one, a motto ascribed to the Jadwin family of colonial Virginia: Virtus diu re bona.
Anyone?
Joseph McMillan;100940 wrote:
Got another one, a motto ascribed to the Jadwin family of colonial Virginia: Virtus diu re bona.
Anyone?
Re bona has to be in the ablative ("from / in a good thing"), and virtus ("strength, excellence, virtue") is in the nominative. Diu is an adverb that means "for a long time."
Putting that all together is something literally like "[There is] excellence for a long time in a good thing." I’m sure there could be a better translation but it’s sort of a tricky set of words.
Joseph McMillan;100940 wrote:
Got another one, a motto ascribed to the Jadwin family of colonial Virginia: Virtus diu re bona.
Anyone?
The literal translation seems to be "You good virtues always come back." Re seems to be second person imperative of "reor," a verb related to coming back both physically and mentally. "Virtus bona" has to be vocative (otherwise they have to be nominative, which doesn’t fit with the verb), so the second person the motto is talking to has to be "good virtue." Diu is an adverb that means basically forever.
Or at least that’s what I’ve cobbled together from a combination of rusty Latin, Tufts dictionary, google translate, and several wikipedia pages.
I have no idea if there’s a good way to render this in English. The sentiment is neatly captured by the phrase "good ideas never go out of style," but that’s a much different way to say it then "Virtus diu re bona."
Alexander Schrenk;100945 wrote:
Re bona has to be in the ablative ("from / in a good thing"), and virtus ("strength, excellence, virtue") is in the nominative. Diu is an adverb that means "for a long time."
Putting that all together is something literally like "[There is] excellence for a long time in a good thing." I’m sure there could be a better translation but it’s sort of a tricky set of words.
That’s a grammatical possibility. But it doesn’t sound like a very motto-ey sentiment. What’s it getting at—that if you find one virtuous/manly/etc. thing it will be a good thing for a long time?
That’s the problem with an inflected language, and very little context. Grammatically "Re" could be a couple things, and depending on what it is the rest of the words change in meaning. It doesn’t help that it’s entirely possible the motto-writer had no clue what he was doing.