Help to blazon in English

 
Guido
 
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Guido
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21 October 2013 13:29
 

Dear friends,

even if English is not my language, I was asked to blazon this coat of arms drawn by Giuseppe Quattrociocchi (http://www.gqaraldica.it):

http://www.webalice.it/buldrini/Iagi/Morello.jpg

 

Here is my idea, but I’m waiting for your corrections.

 

Per fess. 1. Or, the Seraph (six winged head) gules between two fleurs de lis azur. 2. Gules, the rose argent seeded or. As crest, over the helm, a tower, masoned natural, port and window azur. Motto: "In ivstitia et pace probitas."

 

Ciao!

Guido

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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21 October 2013 16:46
 

Guido;100890 wrote:

Dear friends,

even if English is not my language, I was asked to blazon this coat of arms drawn by Giuseppe Quattrociocchi (http://www.gqaraldica.it):

http://www.webalice.it/buldrini/Iagi/Morello.jpg

 

Here is my idea, but I’m waiting for your corrections.

 

Per fess. 1. Or, the Seraph (six winged head) gules between two fleurs de lis azur. 2. Gules, the rose argent seeded or. As crest, over the helm, a tower, masoned natural, port and window azur. Motto: "In ivstitia et pace probitas."

 

Ciao!

Guido


Guido, this is quite adequate.  Rather than numbering the chief and base, most English-speaking heraldists would probably refer to chief and base, and would probably do things slightly differently.  I would probably say:

 

Per fess Or and Gules in chief a seraph Gules between two fleurs-de-liz Azure and in base a rose Argent [barbed and seeded proper].

 

Crest:  A tower Or port and windows Azure.

 

Comments:

- I bracket the barbs and seeds because in Anglophone heraldry it should go without saying that the seeds are yellow and the barbs green, but many heraldists prefer to give the full formula.

-The masoning of the tower can be taken for granted unless a specific color has to be specified.

- Some official blazons on grants of arms give the "above the helm is set for crest…" verbiage, but for most purposes it is superfluous—where would the crest go if not on the helm?

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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21 October 2013 16:50
 

Nice design & nice artwork, though the face on the seraphim is a bit hard to make out—IMO would be better to use white or gold lines on the red, rather than black lines, to deliniate the face etc.

RE: the blazon:

 

"Per fess. 1. Or, the Seraph (six winged head) gules between two fleurs de lis azur. 2. Gules, the rose argent seeded or. As crest, over the helm, a tower, masoned natural, port and window azur. Motto: "In ivstitia et pace probitas."

 

For the arms themselves, delete "1" and "2" (it’s understood that the part in chief preceeds the part in base), and capitalize the first letter of each the tincture: Gules, Azure, Or, Argent—otherwise looks fine to me.

 

For the crest, we would generally specify the wreath (torse) - e.g. On a wreath Or and Gules a tower…" or "Issuing from a wreath Or and Gules a tower…" (some would just say "of the liveries" rather than specify the colores, but IMO clarity is better)delete the comma after "tower", use "Proper" rather than "natural", and capitalize Azure.

 

Others here may do a nicer or more poetic job but this should suffice.

 

EDIT—just saw Joe’s response—as noted above, "others may…" and he did!  I don’t think "in chief" and "in base" are absolutely necessary, but as I said in different context, clarity is better so go with Joe.  He didn’t address the black lines vs. white or gold on the seraph’s face—not a part of the blazon (i.e. never AFAIK specified in the blazon), but IMO a desirable option for the artiest to improve visibility.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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21 October 2013 21:27
 

Michael F. McCartney;100898 wrote:

For the crest, we would generally specify the wreath (torse) - e.g. On a wreath Or and Gules a tower…" or "Issuing from a wreath Or and Gules a tower…" (some would just say "of the liveries" rather than specify the colores, but IMO clarity is better).


Interesting that Mike and I put conciseness before clarity in different parts of the blazon.  What he suggests is clearly correct, but I would contend that it’s equally correct in an English-language blazon to omit mention of the wreath/torse if it is of the principal color and metal of the arms, in this case Or and Gules.  I think I’m correct in the generalization that in Anglophone heraldry the crest always is on a wreath of the colors unless otherwise stated.

 
Guido
 
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Guido
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22 October 2013 07:06
 

Thank you for your kindness and for the lesson, President McMillan and Mr. McCartney! I summarized your corrections and suggestions at http://www.iagiforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17838&p=202082#p202080. Thanks again and ciao!

Guido

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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22 October 2013 09:08
 

Guido,

I just looked in the IAGI forum at your explanation and it prompts three additional comments.

 

1. For some reason I misread your original blazon stating that the tower was "natural," and instead looked at the picture and saw that it was gold. I see that your colleague Morello blazoned it in Italian as "torre murata al naturale, aperta e finestrata d’azzurro e merlata alla guelfa." I would expect a tower "al naturale,"or proper, to be gray and not gold. Is there a word missing in the Italian blazon? Also, in English-influenced heraldry all merlons are Guelph-style (square) unless otherwise indicated, but if this is important to the armiger then it might be best to specify it, as was done in Italian.

 

2. You might need to explain that the capitalization of tinctures in the blazons Mike and I offered is not universal in English-language heraldry. Some people prefer it because it eliminates confusion between "or" as a conjunction (Italian o) and as the heraldic word for gold (Italian oro). But I don’t think the College of Arms capitalizes tinctures, and many people would consider whatever the College does as the authoritative style.

 

3. You split the difference between Mike and me on describing the torse or crest-wreath and ended up with something neither fish nor fowl. The usual practice, if the torse is mentioned at all, is to refer to the tinctures: "On a wreath of the colors [British, ‘colours’]..." or "On a wreath of the liveries…"

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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22 October 2013 17:09
 

An interesting exchange, illustrating (among other things) that blazonry, like heraldry generally, is both an art and a science.

 
laneryd
 
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laneryd
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22 October 2013 18:08
 

Joseph McMillan;100907 wrote:

But I don’t think the College of Arms capitalizes tinctures, and many people would consider whatever the College does as the authoritative style.

 


I think they do:

 

A grant of Arms, Crest and Badge (illustrated left) was made to Heston Marc Blumenthal of Bray in the Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead, OBE, by Letters Patent of Garter and Clarenceux Kings of Arms dated 18 June 2013. College reference: Grants 177/132. The blazon is:

 

Arms: Sable issuant in pall three dexter cubit Arms vested Or each charged with a Rose Gules and cuffed Argent the hands appaumy proper between in chief an Apple slipped and leaved and in base two Lyres Or.

 

Crest: A Duck wings elevated and addorsed Or holding in the dexter foot a Magnifying-glass proper the frame and handle Gules and in the beak three Stems of Lavender flowered proper tied Gules.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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22 October 2013 21:05
 

laneryd;100914 wrote:

I think they do:


Having looked at a number of images of English grants, I think you’re right.  I thought I recalled a discussion some years ago about the varying capitalization practices of different heraldic authorities, but I obviously recalled it incorrectly.

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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22 October 2013 21:09
 

Joe, I think you’re remembering a conversation about how the CoA capitalizes the names of the charges while Lyon does not. Maybe.

 
 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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22 October 2013 23:43
 

Kenneth Mansfield;100919 wrote:

Joe, I think you’re remembering a conversation about how the CoA capitalizes the names of the charges while Lyon does not. Maybe.


Could well be.

 

I do see, from a little digging, that the Chief Herald of Ireland does not capitalize tinctures.  So someone, at least, doesn’t.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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23 October 2013 17:58
 

Joe wrote, "I do see, from a little digging, that the Chief Herald of Ireland does not capitalize tinctures. So someone, at least, doesn’t."

So now we see the REAL reason Garter & Co.  have been so dismissive of CHI grants & confirmations!  smile

 
Guy Power
 
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Guy Power
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24 October 2013 01:31
 

Michael F. McCartney;100923 wrote:

So now we see the REAL reason Garter & Co.  have been so dismissive of CHI grants & confirmations!  smile


NOW it makes sense to me!!!!!

 
ninest123
 
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ninest123
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09 October 2018 23:35