OK, refrigerator test…

 
Robert Blackard
 
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Robert Blackard
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14 March 2014 23:08
 

Quote:

Maybe charge the neck with a small silver chevron….or have it holding something in the mouth?


I like these two idea’s. Just trying to think what it would be holding. A compass for one of my hobby’s, Orienteering? A Spartan mettle that I’ve earned from the Spartan race.

 
Robert Blackard
 
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Robert Blackard
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14 March 2014 23:32
 

So with the corrections, this is what i have:

 

Shield: Argent a hart courant over three chevronelles sable.

Crest: A hart’s head Sable.

Mantle: Argent and Sable.

Motto: Acta non Verba

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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14 March 2014 23:36
 

Robert Blackard;101671 wrote:

I like these two idea’s. Just trying to think what it would be holding. A compass for one of my hobby’s, Orienteering? A Spartan mettle that I’ve earned from the Spartan race.


Keep in mind that the arms are ideally supposed to last forever, and from a perspective of 100 years from now a reference to a hobby may seem a bit trivial.  In fact, it may seem trivial 5 years from now if your interests change.

 

I’m kind of attracted to the notion of putting one or more chevronels on the hart’s neck.  It would be a very Continental touch; lots of German arms have that kind of echo of the shield design worked into the crest.

 

Here are a few examples:

Camenzind

http://www.familie-greve.de/modules/wappenindex/gross/c/ca/camenzind.gif

 

Gebser

http://www.familie-greve.de/modules/wappenindex/gross/g/ge/gebser.gif

 

Hyder

http://www.familie-greve.de/modules/wappenindex/gross/h/hy/hyder.gif

 
Robert Blackard
 
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Robert Blackard
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15 March 2014 00:47
 

Joseph McMillan;101674 wrote:

Keep in mind that the arms are ideally supposed to last forever, and from a perspective of 100 years from now a reference to a hobby may seem a bit trivial.  In fact, it may seem trivial 5 years from now if your interests change.

I’m kind of attracted to the notion of putting one or more chevronels on the hart’s neck.  It would be a very Continental touch; lots of German arms have that kind of echo of the shield design worked into the crest.

 

Here are a few examples:

Camenzind

http://www.familie-greve.de/modules/wappenindex/gross/c/ca/camenzind.gif

 

Gebser

http://www.familie-greve.de/modules/wappenindex/gross/g/ge/gebser.gif

 

Hyder

http://www.familie-greve.de/modules/wappenindex/gross/h/hy/hyder.gif

 


Are you reading my mind!? I didn’t even know that about German Arms! I thought it was a normal thing to do. So for me, this is great because having German roots, doing it that way i can pay homage to my German this. smile So, how to state it, would it go "A hart’s head Sable with Argent chevronelles." ??

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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15 March 2014 08:39
 

"A hart’s head sable charged on the neck with three chevronels [not chevronelles] Argent."

Or, in the plainer English I’m increasingly coming to favor:  "A black hart’s head with three silver chevrons on the neck."

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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18 March 2014 00:56
 

Interesting—a trend to (or at least towards) blazoning in plain English?  Will take getting used to, and may be off-putting to those with more traditional ("ye olde heraldrie" smile  ) blazonry.  But in a broader not-so-Anglocentric sense, it reflects German blazonry, hard as that can be for a non-German to follow!

However blazoned ("a rose by any other name…") it’s a nice design.  My only question is how the chevrons would be placed on the neck of the stag (sorry, hart! - I’m a bit of a stagophile)  in the crest.  While the shield is clearly a two-dimensional image, whether a real shield or a drawing, the crest is conceptually a three-D object which ideally could be depicted in a 2-D drawing from nearly any angle and still be the same crest.  If the hart’s head is depicted in profile, the chevrons would I suppose be depicted in the side of the neck; but if depicted full-face or at an angle, I would expect to see the chevrons on the throat (my preference FWIW, with the helm and crest both turned 1/4 rotation - but that would IMO only be an exercise in artistic license).

 

Apologies for spelling & grammatical goofiness; been working on my taxes all day, which will scramble most folks’ minimum daily requrement of logic.)

 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
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Jeremy Keith Hammond
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19 March 2014 18:59
 

Michael F. McCartney;101688 wrote:

However blazoned ("a rose by any other name…") it’s a nice design.  My only question is how the chevrons would be placed on the neck of the stag (sorry, hart! - I’m a bit of a stagophile)  in the crest.  While the shield is clearly a two-dimensional image, whether a real shield or a drawing, the crest is conceptually a three-D object which ideally could be depicted in a 2-D drawing from nearly any angle and still be the same crest.  If the hart’s head is depicted in profile, the chevrons would I suppose be depicted in the side of the neck; but if depicted full-face or at an angle, I would expect to see the chevrons on the throat (my preference FWIW, with the helm and crest both turned 1/4 rotation - but that would IMO only be an exercise in artistic license).


I think they would be placed exactly as you described under each condition - the ambiguity supports it - and I’m in favor of the ambiguity.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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21 March 2014 20:13
 

I’m all for ambiguity where the result makes sense.  In this case, and of course IMO only, it doesn’t.  If we accpt the general notion that a crest is (at least conceptually) a "real" 3-D object, then chevrons on the throat and chevrons on the side of the neck would be two somewhat diferent 3-D objects.  In this case the issue is less than monumental, since the chevrons are a rather minor point (but nicely evoking the arms themselves) but still IMO not ideal.

My opinions only, I can & do respect other views even when I don’t share them.  I am curious how others may see it.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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21 March 2014 22:50
 

I think the ambiguity is fine.  If Robert doesn’t, then he can blazon "charged on the side of the neck" and ensure that emblazonments always place the helmet in profile (the most usual orientation in any case) so the chevrons show.

 
Robert Blackard
 
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Robert Blackard
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22 March 2014 22:57
 

Little slow today, IMO?

 
Robert Blackard
 
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Robert Blackard
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22 March 2014 23:05
 

Joseph McMillan;101707 wrote:

I think the ambiguity is fine.  If Robert doesn’t, then he can blazon "charged on the side of the neck" and ensure that emblazonments always place the helmet in profile (the most usual orientation in any case) so the chevrons show.


I think just keeping it simple as shown from Joseph, it would be fine. So, it would state like this: Crest: A hart’s head Sable with chevronelles (or chevrons) charged on the side of the neck. Thoughts?

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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22 March 2014 23:23
 

Robert Blackard;101709 wrote:

I think just keeping it simple as shown from Joseph, it would be fine. So, it would state like this: Crest: A hart’s head Sable with chevronelles (or chevrons) charged on the side of the neck. Thoughts?


...charged on the side of the neck with three chevronels (NOT CHEVRONELLES!  There, now I feel much better.  Ahem.) Argent.

 

You need to say how many, and you need to say what tincture.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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26 March 2014 15:47
 

Not my personal preference, FWIW, but a decent resolution.

Again, & most importantly, nice arms!

 
Robert Blackard
 
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Robert Blackard
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30 March 2014 23:35
 

So im on the same page:

Crest: A hart’s head Sable with three chevronels charged on the side of the neck argent.

 

Correct?

 
Robert Blackard
 
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Robert Blackard
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30 March 2014 23:36
 

With the resent corrections, this is what i have:

Shield: Argent a hart courant over three chevronels sable.

Crest: A hart’s head Sable with three chevronels charged on the side of the neck argent.

Mantle: Argent and Sable.

Motto: Acta non Verba