Presidential Series Update

 
zebulon
 
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zebulon
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17 September 2014 01:05
 

snelson;102743 wrote:

Hi all,

While watching the new series on PBS about the Roosevelts I saw what looked like a coat of arms in scenes filmed in FDR’s "Little White House" at Warm Springs, Georgia (where he passed away).

 

Here is a photo I found online:

 

http://n4trb.com/LittleWhiteHouse/images/LittleWhiteHouse023.jpg

 

Can anyone tell me whose arms these are?

 

Many thanks!


It looks similar, though not exactly, to what Crozier’s General Heraldry says were the arms of someone named Delano from Connecticut, so maybe they matriculated to FDRs mother or were rendered inaccurately? Is that why they were displaying them in a lozenge frame, perhaps?

 
liongam
 
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liongam
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17 September 2014 04:02
 

The framed depiction of arms at the Little White is undoubtedly a funeral hatchment for a bachelor in the British/English tradition.  Note the use of argent and gules when depicting the mantling (gules doubled argent) which was the norm in both English and Irish heraldry at one time.  They are certainly not of Dutch extraction.  The arms appear to be blazoned as follows:

Argent a chevron between three griffins’ heads erased sable

 

whilst the crest appear to be:

 

Issuant from a mural crown sable(?) a griffin’s head argent

 

From the photograph the artist who painted this hatchment more than competent and appears to have had a good working knowledge of heraldry.  I would guess that it dates from the 18th century ish.

 

A quick look at Papworth’s Ordinary cross referenced to Burke’s General Armory these arms appear to pertain to either the families of Hayes or Skynner both very slight variations.

 

John

 
JamesD
 
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JamesD
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17 September 2014 05:50
 

snelson;102743 wrote:

Here is a photo I found online:

http://n4trb.com/LittleWhiteHouse/images/LittleWhiteHouse023.jpg[/url


... and, for convenience, here is the coat of arms Seb is asking about, extracted from the photo at the link he has given.

 

http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=105&pictureid=2143


zebulon;102744 wrote:

It looks similar, though not exactly, to what Crozier’s General Heraldry says were the arms of someone named Delano from Connecticut, so maybe they matriculated to FDRs mother or were rendered inaccurately? Is that why they were displaying them in a lozenge frame, perhaps?


Myself, I am not sure I can see the similarity between these arms and Delano’s "argent, fretty sable on a chief gules three wolves’ heads, erased or", Max.

 
JamesD
 
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JamesD
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17 September 2014 06:20
 

There are three possible candidates in the AHS Roll of Early American Arms, as shown below.

http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=105&pictureid=2145

 

(btw I note a slight discrepancy between the erased heads in the emblazonment of Howes and its blazon, which specifies ‘couped’)

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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17 September 2014 08:17
 

JamesD;102749 wrote:

(btw I note a slight discrepancy between the erased heads in the emblazonment of Howes and its blazon, which specifies ‘couped’)


Good catch, James; thanks.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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17 September 2014 08:42
 

JamesD;102749 wrote:

There are three possible candidates in the AHS Roll of Early American Arms, as shown below.

http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=105&pictureid=2145

 

(btw I note a slight discrepancy between the erased heads in the emblazonment of Howes and its blazon, which specifies ‘couped’)


I suspect that the last is the most likely, for three reasons:

 

- The first two are found only in Crozier’s General Armory, which (as I have found from working with the same author’s Virginia Heraldica) means "trust but verify," to put it kindly.  The Smith arms are registered by the NEHGS Committee on Heraldry, which means that they actually existed and, barring genealogical errors, rightfully belonged to the man to whom they are attributed.

 

- Tangier Smith was a New Yorker and a Long Islander (lord of the manor of St. George), in close proximity to the Roosevelts.

 

- Most importantly, FDR was a Smith descendant.  His great-great-grandmother was Rebecca Smith, who was the great-granddaughter of William "Tangier" Smith.

 

The question is:  how has this hatchment previously escaped the notice of people who have tried to catalogue American hatchments?  Or has it?

 

Note that the display of this heirloom does not imply that FDR claimed a right to the arms painted on it.

 

(Also, Max, that the lozenge shape of a hatchment has nothing to do with the lozenge shape of the shield traditionally used by unmarried women.)

 
JamesD
 
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JamesD
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17 September 2014 09:39
 

Joseph McMillan;102751 wrote:

I suspect that the last is the most likely, for three reasons:

- The first two are found only in Crozier’s General Armory, which (as I have found from working with the same author’s Virginia Heraldica) means "trust but verify," to put it kindly.  The Smith arms are registered by the NEHGS Committee on Heraldry, which means that they actually existed and, barring genealogical errors, rightfully belonged to the man to whom they are attributed.

 

- Tangier Smith was a New Yorker and a Long Islander (lord of the manor of St. George), in close proximity to the Roosevelts.

 

- Most importantly, FDR was a Smith descendant.  His great-great-grandmother was Rebecca Smith, who was the great-granddaughter of William "Tangier" Smith.

A compelling argument, Joseph.

 
zebulon
 
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zebulon
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17 September 2014 18:11
 

JamesD;102748 wrote:

... and, for convenience, here is the coat of arms Seb is asking about, extracted from the photo at the link he has given.

http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=105&pictureid=2143

 

 

 

Myself, I am not sure I can see the similarity between these arms and Delano’s "argent, fretty sable on a chief gules three wolves’ heads, erased or", Max.


My mistake, I thought they were wolves heads, not griffins.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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17 September 2014 19:21
 

zebulon;102756 wrote:

My mistake, I thought they were wolves heads, not griffins.


Even if the animals were the same, "fretty…on a chief" is a far cry from "a chevron between."

 
Mark Olivo
 
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Mark Olivo
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18 September 2014 22:56
 

Any possible connection to the John Paul Jones painting?