Hi all,
Ampelio Alonso de Cadenas y López gives the blazon of Arturo O’Neill (1736-1814), first Marqués de Norte and Governor of Spanish West Florida, in his Títulos nobiliarios españoles vinculados con Hispanoamérica y su heráldica (Hidalguía, 1996, volume 44, number 254, page 49). But the blazon he gives does not appear to match some of the hatching in the accompanying illustration. Can anyone here help me figure out which one is correct (if either)?
http://41.media.tumblr.com/a16a530e99fc0287461a5afb5c36f7ad/tumblr_nkx2grV9QI1rq2fm7o1_1280.jpg
Thank you!
I can’t find anything other than what one will glean from Wiki, etc.
Here’s his portrait
https://gd427q.bl3301.livefilestore.com/y2mopL1YTX998h-dX_wfxbg33vp49cMs0MK3-Fw6JZCEeGQvhSGAL4c28OnNLBCTi_KfNZV3V7zvpS0fWv_46Tkub4yPzKhnq9Toqyz5O88brX8LI3Cb5zGqXXni9nuOI8-/Don Arturo O’Neill.jpg?psid
Quote:
In 1753, O’Neill moved to Regiment of Hibernia, to which belonged for the next twenty-eight years of his military career. He joined to this regiment when he was still very young during the reign of Charles IV of Spain. He was sub-lieutenant nine years and he achieved also grades of Lieutenant general and field marshal. He served in the campaign of Portugal, in 1762. He was then in garrison of Oran and later, in 1775, in the military campaign of Algiers. He was also present in the campaign against Brazil, which contributed to the seizure of Fort Santa Cruz, Santa Catalina Island, which served as governor until the end of the war.
His military skills enabled him to obtain, in 1764, promotion to Assistant Mayor of Hibernia and, in 1773, while serving in Pamplona, Spain, O’Neill obtained the rank of captain of the regiment.[2] In addition, he was promoted also to colonel of the Regiment of Hibernia after serving with distinction against the British at Pensacola in March 1781.
Regiment of Hibernia uniform and colonel’s color:
http://i2.wp.com/www.theirishstory.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Irish-Spanish-Brigade.jpg
The closest I could find was in French (Armorial de JB RIETSTAP) and seems to match the Spanish blazon:
O’Neille Castille - Tiercé en fasce au 1 d’azur à trois étoiles rangées d’argent au 2 d’or à deux lions affrontés de gueules supp ensemble une main du même au 3 d’argent à un saumon de sinople nageant sur une mer d’azur agitée d’argent
Source (6th from bottom).
I just noticed the Spanish and French blazons place the lions affronte, not rampant combatant.
—Guy
Do we know that "deux lions affrontes" in French really means what in English we call affrontee? The French blazons in Rietstap quoted in the Source link use the same term for all the O’Neill arms with two lions on the shield, whether in Spain, France or GB, and we know that those in GB have the lions rampant combatant.
How does Rietstap blazon O’Carroll or other Irish or British arms with lions rampant combatant, and how are they drawn?
Just speculating, but ...
Hi Mike—I’ll have to let someone else address your question as I am merely the blind who wishes not to (mis)lead the blind.
I also note the French blazon does not have the bordure that the Spanish blazon has (but is missing in the emblazon).
—Guy
Guy Power;103650 wrote:
I just noticed the Spanish and French blazons place the lions affronte, not rampant combatant.
Baron De Stalins’ Vocabulaire Atlas of heraldic terms in six languages gives ‘affrontes’ as the French for ‘combatant’ and ‘afrontados’ as the Spanish term.
Arthur Radburn;103653 wrote:
Baron De Stalins’ Vocabulaire Atlas of heraldic terms in six languages gives ‘affrontes’ as the French for ‘combatant’ and ‘afrontados’ as the Spanish term.
Thanks Arthur.
—Guy
Guy Power;103652 wrote:
I also note the French blazon does not have the bordure that the Spanish blazon has (but is missing in the emblazon).
—Guy
I noticed this as well
Is this book available on google books by any chance?
I’ve done an image following the blazon in Cadenas and uploaded it to our roll of early American arms, noting the inconsistency in the source. (I also turned the salmon to face dexter.)
http://www.americanheraldry.org/pages/uploads/Roll/oneill-tyrone.gif
Nice. Since the blazon is a lot more detailed, I’d trust that over the depiction
In the absence of a contemporary image, I think we have to trust the blazon, too. I would speculate that the original arms were as in Rietstap, without the bordure, but without knowing when the bordure was added, I think we have to go with this.
Looks great Joe!
