same sex marriage

 
snelson
 
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snelson
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26 June 2015 22:56
 

Hi all,

I’ve read the ruling from the College of Arms regarding the marshalling of arms of English individuals in same sex marriages (http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/resources/same-sex-marriages).  Can anyone tell me what practices exist in other jurisdictions regarding the marshalling of arms of individuals in same sex marriages?  I’ve read that in Canada it is left up to the two married armigers to decide whose arms are to be dexter, and whose arms are to be sinister…but I don’t know if this is accurate.  And what about Scotland or the United States?

 
StarScepter
 
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StarScepter
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27 June 2015 03:49
 

The only thing even remotely approaching an heraldic "authority" in the US is The Institute of Heraldry (here… http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/ ). They are part of the US Army and regulate military unit heraldry. As far as I know they have nothing to do with personal heraldic achievements.

 
snelson
 
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snelson
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27 June 2015 11:28
 

StarScepter;104471 wrote:

The only thing even remotely approaching an heraldic "authority" in the US is The Institute of Heraldry (here… http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/ ). They are part of the US Army and regulate military unit heraldry. As far as I know they have nothing to do with personal heraldic achievements.


Very interesting!

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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27 June 2015 12:16
 

I think it is tolerably well known that the U.S. has no official authority regulating personal heraldry.  The question about marshaling arms of same-sex couples would perhaps be better phrased as "Given that there is no precedent to draw on, what practice would make the most sense in the American context?"

It seems fairly obvious that if one accepts the validity of a same-sex marriage, one necessarily accepts that the couples may marshal their arms in any of the ways traditionally available to husbands and wives—typically either impalement or two shields side-by-side.  The only real issue, then, is which spouse’s arms take the precedence of the dexter position.  Mike McCartney has suggested on the HSS forum that the choice should be driven by whatever the two people concerned consider to be their primary surname.  I think that’s a workable solution in cases where such a name choice exists, but rather suspect that such would be the exception rather than the rule.  My impression is that same-sex couples generally tend either to retain their individual birth names or to take hyphenated names in which the order used depends on the partner; one might be known as Mary Smith-Jones and the other as Ann Jones-Smith, for example.

 

The bigger question that comes to my mind is whether the whole convention of impaling the arms of spouses really makes sense any more, especially for couples, either opposite sex or same sex, who do not accept the notion that one spouse necessarily takes primacy over the other.  If heraldic usage should reflect social and especially legal norms, why would a woman be expected to impale her arms with her husband’s if her legal personality is no longer subsumed into his?

 

Accordingly, perhaps the common rule for all should be that, if a couple elects to marshal their arms together, they may put whichever coat on whichever side they prefer, and to switch them back and forth as they like.

 

Worth thinking about, anyway.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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28 June 2015 02:51
 

I suspect that Joe’s suggestion - or rather, his prediction as to what will occur in gay marriages - is likely to be accurate.  I just don’t see it as a "best practice" that we should recommend, if anyone should ask us.  My reasoning FWIW:

First, common starting points drawn from our Guidelines:

 

* A nation’s heraldry should reflect it’s legal and social norms, which trump any inconsistent heraldic practices, however longstanding and internationally widespread.

** So given the SCOTUS decision this week, gay and straight marriages are legally equal.

 

* The principle function of arms is identification.

** In this country, both our legal and social practices largely favor surnames as the primary identifier for persons and families; and thus our Guidelines favor consistency between family surname and family arms associated with that same surname.

** When arms are marshalled for various purposes, the format should predictably and consistently identify the nature of the relationship and the identities of the persons involved, both jointly and individually.

 

(OK, I’m extrapolating a bit, but IMO all this is either explicitly in, or logically follows from, our Guidelines.)

 

Following the SC decision, all of the above needs to be applied equally to all married couples, gay or straight.  Practically, since we have a long and fairly consistent approach for straight couples and little or none for gay, that means we should apply the existing practice of impalement to both equally, or as equally as we can. There is no reason - and really no justification - to invent something new and different for gay couples if we can avoid it.

 

Current practice, both here and in some other nations, allows both spouses to bear their own arms separately if they wish; so ditto gay couples if they so wish.  The rest of my comments apply primarily to marshalled arms if the happy couple, gay or straight, both have arms and choose to marshall them; or if only one spouse has arms.

 

If a couple (either variety) decides to bear the same surname, that is their chosen identity and the arms associated with that name may be used alone, or impaled to dexter, to reflect that identity.  If only one spouse has arms but the couple decides to use the other spouse’s surname, that spouse can design and adopt arms to impale to dexter, or they can jointly design and adopt arms (possibly but optionally based largely on the arms of the other spouse but different enough to be heraldically distinct and appropriate for the chosen name).

 

If each spouse chooses to retain their own surname, each can also retain and use their own arms unimpaled if /when they wish. If they wish to impale, then I suppose each could favor their own arms (to dexter) for personal use, but IMO this doesn’t really serve to express a joint identity since the two impalements would visually suggest two distinct couples.  For straight couples, a joint impalement with him to dexter and her to sinister does have the benefit of long tradition clearly identifying who is who, but that doesn’t help for a gay couple.

Needs more thought.

 

For hyphenated names, it’s arguably simpler.  Again, each partner can use his/her own arms separately if/when desired; and if only one spouse has arms, and the other doesn’t want to devise and adopt arms, IMO both can use the arms of the one who has arms.  This follows the foreign practice when an individual adopts a hyphenated name (e.g. under a will) but only one of the hyphenated names has arms, but without any gender considerations.

For impalement purposes, a straight couple who hyphenate.could use the traditional his to dexter, hers to sinister, but that’s not applicable / helpful to a gay couple.  My suggestion would be to follow the pattern cited in the Guidelines for quartered arms, giving IIRC precedence to the second half of the hyphenated name, in deciding dexter and sinister placement in impaling their arms.

 

All this is looking more complicated than I had hoped!  What do others think?

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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29 June 2015 02:09
 

Rereading Joe’s last post, I think I mischaracterized as a prediction, his suggestion that we rethink traditional notions of marital impalements by married couples, either gay or straight.  Mea culpa - should read more carefully before launching…

If I now correctly grasp Joe’s concern, he’s questioning the continued viability of the traditional husband dexter, wife sinister pattern for straight couples, as inconsistent with modern notions / norms of gender equality.

 

This presupposes that the husband’s dexter placement is more prestigious than the wife’s sinister slot, which historically is certainly true.  The rare exception - thinking of Dervorguilla of Galloway to dexter and her husband Balliol to sinister, based on her greater dynastic importance - is the proverbial exception that proves the rule.

 

Joe’s suggested gender-equal remedy is to allow a couple to arrange their impalement as they please, and to switch back and forth as they like.

 

This flexibility is likely to be attractive to some/ many.  My concern is that it doesn’t promote a consistent joint identity, contrary to the principal practical function of heraldry.

 

I agree that we can’t continue to automatically determine and define that joint identity on male gender, even for mixed couples; and it’s useless for same-sex couples.

 

That’s why I believe we should focus on surnames.  First, that approach IMO best reflects how we identify individuals and families in the broader social and legal context.  Second, at least here and now, choice of which surname to bear, or which order for hyphenated surnames, is a free choice for each individual and couple, gay or straight.  Third, we already have conventions for marshalling quarterings when a person or family bears a hyphenated surname, which can easily be applied to impalements.  Fourth, an individual or couple is unlikely to change surname, single or hyphenated, on mere whimsy; the practicalities of daily life require, or at least strongly favor, consistency of name.  Fifth, since our heraldic identity is (should be) merely a reflection of our real identity, arms - including marital impalements - should reflect our consistent chosen surname(s).

 

There will likely be unique situations and outliers warranting special consideration, but IMO the approach outlined above should be workable in most cases.