A rip-off of Don Pottinger’s art...

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A rip-off of Don Pottinger’s art…

David Pope

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Joined 17-09-2010

Sr. Member

Total Posts: 559

Joined 17-09-2010

Posted: 24 April 2014 11:04

I’m sure that Mr. Pottinger’s heirs have not consented to this:

http://www.the-flag-center.com/shop/index.cfm?category=17

Michael F. McCartney

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Joined 24-05-2004

Sr. Member

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Joined 24-05-2004

Posted: 26 April 2014 11:58

Beautiful and very artistically creative artwork - very Pottingeresque!

Hopefully the website did request & receive permission from the copyright holder, whether that’s now Don’s family or perhaps some corporate entity. I know Don was quite upset when some other (in his opinion lesser) artist redrew a number of images from "Simple Heraldry…" for an encyclopedia article years back - Don complained & in subsequent editions they used other artwork. At least the artwork in this case is actually his!

eploy

Total Posts: 768

Joined 30-03-2007

Sr. Member

Total Posts: 768

Joined 30-03-2007

Posted: 07 May 2014 01:49

The artwork seems to be used to manufacture and sell standards that technically belonging to Scottish Chiefs and not to the respective clans per se. I suspect the business owner will not readily agree to stop using the relevant artwork if the business is a lucrative one. The best recourse is for Mr. Pottinger’s estate or heirs to sue based on copyright infringement. As the company is located in California, the legal action would have to be initiated there.

harold cannon

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Joined 30-03-2011

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Total Posts: 240

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Posted: 07 May 2014 09:54

This is very interesting to me as I have been approched by someone to copy a standard that was granted to himself as the armiger. He wants that exact same artwork of an emblazonment he has, but done in a digital format so that the actual flag could be digitally printed.

So where would this put a person like me? Who has more right to the use of the art? The armiger of the artist?

I am being specifically asked by the armiger to do a digital copy of a standard so they can have it made with the artwork that they like from another artist.

Terry Baldwin

Total Posts: 34

Joined 01-04-2014

Jr. Member

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Joined 01-04-2014

Posted: 07 May 2014 12:12

Harold,

Personal opinion here. You are being "contracted" by the individual who was granted the arms originally, and therefore with their permission and them knowing it is going to be a "copy". Since, once an arms is granted, the grantee can reproduce that arms. I see nothing wrong here.

harold cannon

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Total Posts: 240

Joined 30-03-2011

Posted: 07 May 2014 12:21

Terry,

That is basically the way I feel but some artists get very touchy with the copyright craziness. I figure if they are my arms and I want to transfer a painting, sketch, or drawing ,that I have done by an artist, into a digital format then that should be up to me as the armiger.

Terry Baldwin

Total Posts: 34

Joined 01-04-2014

Jr. Member

Total Posts: 34

Joined 01-04-2014

Posted: 07 May 2014 14:14

Again Harold,

The artist is this case would know that his work is going to be reproduced, it is the very nature of the granting of arms, otherwise, the grantee would have to go back to the artist for dishes, stationary or whatever, and I can not believe that the artist would willing to set himself up to be that position. Once the arms is granted, whose decisions belong to the grantee not the artist.

Kenneth Mansfield

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Posted: 07 May 2014 15:00

Copyright does not necessarily pass from artist to commissioner which is why it is important to have these things in writing when commissioning artwork of one’s arms if one has plans to reproduce it. Some artwork is done with the understanding that it is to be reproduced (line drawings for stationery come to mind), others not so much (as a library painting).

Digitizing artwork is in a murky area. It really isn’t "reproducing" it in the conventional sense, but I would venture to guess that you are in no danger, Harold.

Kenneth Mansfield - VITAM FORTITER AGERE

Terry Baldwin

Total Posts: 34

Joined 01-04-2014

Jr. Member

Total Posts: 34

Joined 01-04-2014

Posted: 07 May 2014 16:00

Would it not be a safe step to simply enquire of the armiger, the copyright status of the original. I have not looked very deeply at this, but it would seem to be the safest course. I had not considered copyright issues in my previous comments.

Michael F. McCartney

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Joined 24-05-2004

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Joined 24-05-2004

Posted: 07 May 2014 17:08

Or maybe ask (or have the grantee ask) the artist about it, if the grantee doesn’t already have written permission or a contract transferring the copyright to him.

For example, when Don drew my arms, his letter specifically gave

me the copyright. Technically I suppose that would allow me to shop the artwork to whoever. In fairness to him & later his family, however, other than posting the arms on this & the HSS website rolls of members arms and past use of the shield portion as my screen avatar, I’ve only allowed one other person to use any of that artwork - a special case that some of the rec.heraldry old-timers may (or may not!) recall, & which I likely won’t have occasion or inclination to repeat, outside of my own family who in any case would be heraldically entitled to use the arms.

Back to the website posted above - I hadn’t noticed that it was apparently selling the artwork to all comers, which I assume (not being a lawyer) would have copyright complications.

ninest123

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Joined 29-06-2017

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Posted: 25 July 2018 11:36

Italian Arms Official French Heraldic Registry