Fred White;57366 wrote:
This is a somewhat tangential and off-topic question, but does anyone familiar with Jacobite family histories have any suggestions for starting points for verifying the genealogy (and possibly the arms) of my ancestor James McDonald, b. 1796 in Limerick?
I don’t know how good the records are in Limerick but I would start with the pinned down - i.e. James’ birth and try the Limerick records first before giving more than minor credence to the Jacobite stories. Someone once said that if all the ancestors of Americans of Scots origin who are claimed to have been Jacobites had been in the Prince’s army he’d have been the 18th century Alexander.
Fred White;57366 wrote:
James McDonald said that he was a descendant of Jacobites who bore significant losses at the battle of Culloden Moor. A further fourteen family members were executed by the Crown for treason, and the remainder fled to Ireland for safety as hopes for a Stuart restoration collapsed. It seems that James and a brother, (said to have been named Albert and later to have joined the British navy), were orphaned at a very early age when their parents, too, were executed by the Crown for treasonous activities of some kind—perhaps involvement in the Irish Uprising under Wolfe Tone in 1798, at which time James would have been two.
I would think that there will be quite a bit of research on who was involved in Wolfe Tone’s rising so the parents should be traceable if they were involved, especially if they were executed.
However a brother Albert looks a bit suspicious. Albert wasn’t a common first name in Britain except in the Victorian period when lots of ‘berts of varying forms appeared. A study on boys surnamed Smith (as a workable sample) showed Albert as 20th most popular in 1850, 11th in 1875, 9th in 1900, 10th in 1925 and not within the top 50 before or since.
Joining the navy shouldn’t surprise. Families liked to keep a foot in both camps so that the brother on the winning side could come to the aid of the brother on the losing side.
The younger half brother of John David Gordon (founder of the "Spanish Gordons" who are Conde de Mirasol) was Sir James Alexander Gordon (1782-1869) who joined the navy as a Midshipman in 1793 and died an Admiral of the Fleet. Their grandfather John Gordon (1723-1760) was "out" in ‘45 and spent some time thereafter hidden in the "secret" room in Beldorney Castle.
Fred White;57366 wrote:
The brothers were then raised in a monastery (or an orphanage run by a religious order), with young James vowing revenge on the individual whose betrayal resulted in his parents’ deaths. James trained for the priesthood, and may even have taken Holy Orders, but while still a very young man, it so happened that he did encounter the man who bore witness against his parents, whereupon he brained him with a shovel. It is not clear whether the man died or not, but in this way, James’ career in the priesthood was terminated. The monks at his abbey, taking pity on him (presumably because they were not particularly enamored of the Crown’s agents themselves), arranged for his passage to America.
Again this should be traceable through either church records or contemporary accounts (especially if he did brain him with a shovel).
BTW - today is the anniversary of Culloden.
James
James Dempster;57367 wrote:
Someone once said that if all the ancestors of Americans of Scots origin who are claimed to have been Jacobites had been in the Prince’s army he’d have been the 18th century Alexander.
A well founded axiom, I’m sure, but in this particular Scot’s case, some fairly outlandish stories turned out to be true, and certain branches of the McDonald clan were quite involved in the Jacobite cause, so I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that the family tradition is more or less accurate, but only the records will tell.
James Dempster;57367 wrote:
. . . a brother Albert looks a bit suspicious. Albert wasn’t a common first name in Britain except in the Victorian period . . .
Suspicious indeed.
James Dempster;57367 wrote:
Joining the navy shouldn’t surprise. Families liked to keep a foot in both camps so that the brother on the winning side could come to the aid of the brother on the losing side.
Good to know.
BTW - today is the anniversary of Culloden.
What strange synchronicity!
Fred White;57382 wrote:
A well founded axiom, I’m sure, but in this particular Scot’s case, some fairly outlandish stories turned out to be true, and certain branches of the McDonald clan were quite involved in the Jacobite cause, so I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that the family tradition is more or less accurate, but only the records will tell.
The very point that certain Macdonalds were very involved is one of the reasons for caution. There are likely to be so many, and all with similar first names. That means that trying to go forward from the lists of Jacobites to a Macdonald resident 50 years later in Limerick is going to be very difficult.
For those that are interested the most recent work that I know of is:
No Quarter Given: The Muster Roll of Prince Charles Edward Stuart’s Army, 1745-46
by Christian Aikman (Author, Editor), Alastair Livingstone (Editor), Betty Stuart-Hart (Editor)
# ISBN-10: 1903238021
# ISBN-13: 978-1903238028
the above is a 2001 revision of the original 1984
The Muster Roll of Prince Charles Edward Stuart’s Army, 1745-46
by A. Livingstone (Editor), C. Aikman (Editor), B. Hart (Editor)
ISBN-10: 0080303854
ISBN-13: 978-0080303857
James
James,
Thank you very much for the quoted information!
James Dempster;57365 wrote:
...de Ruvigny’s "Jacobite Peerage" doesn’t list grants of arms but does list Declarations of Noblesse issued by Athlone. There isn’t one for Peter Power.
Where would Athlone’s Register of Arms be located; or, is it forever lost?
Thank you for providing the results of your research.
Regards,
—Guy
Going through my emails regarding Ramon Power, the researcher tells me:
Peter Power (mother’s maiden name was Morgan) was born in Waterford in ± 1625. He left Ireland for France and married Francisca Dubernet from St.Macario, France. This information we found in a book by Micheline Walsh with the title Spanish Knights of Irish Origin Nov.1977, final volume. All the documents are in the Spanish language which we translated to English.It is our understanding that when the Power family moved from France to Spain they had to prove their faith to the Catholic Church in Spain. They settled in Bilbao,Spain. Joaquin Ramon Power Morgan who was in the military was posted in Puerto Rico which was in those days a Spanish colony. One of the sons of Joaquin by the name of Ramon Power Giralt became the first deputy of Puerto Rico in the Court of Cadiz,Spain.
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We are researching my wife’s family records from Waterford,Ireland. In one of our documents they mention two Catholic churches,St Olav and Holy Trinity. The names on the documents are John Higgins, Rector of St Olav and Paul Bollen, Vicar of Holy Trinity Church. The document is signed on September 20,1719 in Waterford. The title of the document is as follows: "Certificate in favour of Juan Bautista Power,father of Joaquin Power,from Irish Ecclesiastics,Waterford,1719". The Power family was forced to leave Ireland and went to France and from there to Spain. We suspect that this document was written to prove their faith when they entered Spain.
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