Power/a Poer arms???

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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24 August 2006 00:02
 

Are these Power/ la Poer Arms on Baz Manning’s website under the “heraldic plaques” area and on the top row at the far right?

www.heraldic-artist.com

 

They are: Argent, on a chief indented Sable, three garbs Or, in the honor point a Baronet’s escutcheon Argent, charged with a sinister hand apaumme couped at the wrist Gules.

 

Are these a Power/la Poer variant? I notice a nobleman’s coronet (Baron), so whose are these arms if not a Powers?

 

 

***OK, so I seen it type as Power/la Poer, not Power/a Poer…I have no idea who "a Poer" is at all…LOL*** :D

 
Guy Power
 
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Guy Power
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24 August 2006 01:30
 

Hello Denny,

The basic shield—Argent a chief indented Sable—is most often attributed to Sir Robert le Poer (killed ca. 1176), Baron Poer of Donoyle (Ireland), Knight Marshal to Henry II, and Custos of Waterford after the Cumbrio-Norman Invasion.  This senior Poer/Power line died out in the early 18th century; the last of the line was Baroness Catherine Power who married Sir Marcus Beresford in 1717; either he, or his son, changed the name to "de la Poer-Beresford" (at Catherine’s insistance).

 

But as you know, with the "three sheafs Or" on the chief it could belong to anyone.  Well .... a Lord Anyone who is also a Baronet.  smile  I would wager the owner is of the Power family .... but then again, I found "Argent a chief indented Sable" attributed to someone else (not a Poer) listed in one of the early 13th or 14th century Roll of Arms (England).  I’ll see if I can find that again.

 

I have no idea whose arms they are but I will write to Mr. Manning to see if he will identify the owner.

 

He is a very good heraldic artist—sure wish I could afford him!

 

Thanks for bringing this emblazon to my attention.

 

Cheers,

Guy

 
David Boven
 
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David Boven
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24 August 2006 11:33
 

Gents,

A Google of the blazon leads one to an article by Mr Manning on the SHA website. He mentions that his "five times Great Grandfather on [his] mother’s side was Sir Nicholas Lawless, Baron Cloncurry. He used Argent on a Chief indented Sable three Garbs Or which is still used by the Lawlesses to this day." So it would seem that this fellow was not a Power afterall.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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24 August 2006 11:48
 

Thanks both of you. smile

 
arriano
 
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arriano
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24 August 2006 12:31
 

If you place your cursor over the picture on Baz Manning’s web site, the ID popup says, "The full achievement of extinct Barony and Baronetcy of Cloncurry on a hardwood plaque."

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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24 August 2006 12:36
 

I did that Arriano, but nothing came up at all. It did allow my to click to enlarge, but that was it. I wonder why I got no info like you did…

 
arriano
 
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arriano
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24 August 2006 12:41
 

Hmmmm…. Strange. May have something to do with how your computer is set up or the browser you use. When I place my cursor over your avatar on this page I get the popup ID: "Donnchadh’s avatar."

Do you not get that either?

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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24 August 2006 16:56
 

Poer vs Lawless—an interesting example of what does or doesn’t "sufficiently" difference a particular design, so as to create a distinct coat of arms.  In this case, the "space" on the ordinary is essentially "filled" by the three garbs or whatever, which IMO is sufficient; ditto a single charge which filled the space (e.g. a lion passant or a cross throughout).  By contrast, adding only one smaller charge which doesn’t fill the space would IMO be at best ambiguous

 
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