My wife’s arms

 
Linusboarder
 
Avatar
 
 
Linusboarder
Total Posts:  732
Joined  20-08-2006
 
 
 
21 August 2006 21:05
 

So i created a shield (not the entire coat yet) for my wife, and I wanted to get some opinions on it. (I am not a member yet, but have every intention of joining, especially considering how much help i’ll be asking for) so i hope some of you can indulge me a little.

Before I go into the design I want to into my theory on shield design so you can get an idea of what i was thinking when i designed this (my first) shield. Now remember this is all completely amature and i haven’t read up too much about this so bear with me. First I think a modern shield needs to incorporate elements of both the Father’s and Mother’s shield into it. We live in a modern society where stuff like inheritance, wealth and prestige aren’t based on just the males (for the most part) so i think the shields of our day should represent that. However since this is my first design, after i finalize this one I will design her Father’s and Her mother’s (eventually) basically by reverse engineering.

 

Second I know there’s quite the debate about whether cadence belongs in a shield/CoA. I am on the Ït does" side, if for no other reason that it gives a simple yet elegant way of individualising shields between siblings without sacrificing any of the family recognition a shield/CoA provides. That’s why I provided the unusual cadence in my wifes design.

 

I am also not sold on the tradition where the CoA is granted at Birth, rather later in life. I think It should not only be a family identification, but also a reflection of you and your life. As a person we are all evolving, why shouldn’t our CoA slightly evolve over time. (As a thought I received a Bachelor’s, then a Master’s degree in Physics. If someone spends time in the service shouldn’t their CoA reflect that? Why shouldn’t my CoA reflect this?) However I feel (and i could be wrong) that the biggest family identification is the shield, so once that is granted, it shouldn’t be changed, just the stuff outside the shield in the CoA.

 

Ok now that you have dwelled through my completely arbitrary and amature CoA design philosophy, i want to actually get into the shield I designed for my wife.

 
Linusboarder
 
Avatar
 
 
Linusboarder
Total Posts:  732
Joined  20-08-2006
 
 
 
21 August 2006 21:06
 

Ok i have uploaded a picture of the Shield I am designing for my wife. This is a prototype and is open for improvements.

http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/899cc88111.png

So let me get a little into the design aspects. The 1/2 and 1/2 design was completely arbitrary on my part. First i got all my symbolism from this website and I have since learned that this is kinda bogus.

 

The green is supposed to represent "Hope, joy, and loyalty in love" and the gold "Generosity and elevation of the mind" two traits I feel run in her family, as well as her.

 

The gold falcon on the left is supposed to represent "One who does not rest until objective achieved".

 

The symbol on the right is loosley based on individual Ermine’s. In Canadian Heraldry an ermine is the symbol for the second daughter, which she technically is, however the heart at the bottom is supposed to symbolize the bond she has with her sister, who is her fraternal twin. the raguly "stem"of that piece is supposed to represent great "Difficulties that have been encountered"

 
Patrick Williams
 
Avatar
 
 
Patrick Williams
Total Posts:  1356
Joined  29-07-2006
 
 
 
21 August 2006 21:38
 

Hi, Linus. I’ll jump right in, if you don’t mind. Keep in mind that I’m still pretty new at all this, too.

First, think of arms as a legal signature. That’s why they don’t change over time: once you’ve assumed arms and claim them as your own, they are customarily seen to be permanent. Like a tattoo or your signature, and therefore do not change as we do.

 

As to your particular work: as has already been said, they appear to be the arms of a married couple-impaled and all, if they were the arms of her parents, they’d be quartered. While your idea of reverse engineering arms for her parents is interesting, it would probably be easier in the long run to do those arms first, then quarter them. But then again, your explanation of the sinister division isn’t about her mother, but about your wife and her sister, if I read you right.

 

I don’t know if it’s wise to try to reinvent furs-basing an idea upon ermine, changing it to colors that have never been fur colors and adding items will just make blazoning your arms impossible.

 

How about this as an idea: Vert a Falcon passant close facing sinister Or between two Hearts Ermine in chief all within a bordure embattled Or.

 

This gives you an undivided green shield with the gold falcon facing left as you have it now. It also gives you 2 hearts Ermine, to symbolize the sisters and your wife’s birth order and the gold bordure embattled (I don’t think you can have a bordure raguly) for the "difficulties encountered". Yes, it’s true that these symbols don’t have these universal heraldic meanings, but if they have those meanings to you and your wife, then why not keep them?

 
Joseph McMillan
 
Avatar
 
 
Joseph McMillan
Total Posts:  7658
Joined  08-06-2004
 
 
 
21 August 2006 21:48
 

This is a lot better than I expected it to be from the original description.  I don’t think it needs as radical surgery as Patrick suggests, just a little tweaking.

The two-coats-impaled problem might be solved by uniting the falcon with at least one of the twig thingiess, which I think can be blazoned as "two batons bendwise raguly treflé at the upper end and [something…anybody?] at the lower."  If the falcon is grasping one of them somehow, then the entire composition can be described as "per pale…..counterchanged."  Still some work to be done, but the basic composition is not horribly antiheraldic. 

 

I would, however, reverse the fields, and put the falcon on the sinister side facing dexter.  Something about charges unnecessarily facing the sinister kind of rubs me the wrong way.

 
Patrick Williams
 
Avatar
 
 
Patrick Williams
Total Posts:  1356
Joined  29-07-2006
 
 
 
21 August 2006 21:57
 

Joseph McMillan wrote:

This is a lot better than I expected it to be from the original description.  I don’t think it needs as radical surgery as Patrick suggests, just a little tweaking.

The two-coats-impaled problem might be solved by uniting the falcon with at least one of the twig thingiess, which I think can be blazoned as "two batons bendwise raguly treflé at the upper end and [something…anybody?] at the lower."  If the falcon is grasping one of them somehow, then the entire composition can be described as "per pale…..counterchanged."  Still some work to be done, but the basic composition is not horribly antiheraldic. 

 

I would, however, reverse the fields, and put the falcon on the sinister side facing dexter.  Something about charges unnecessarily facing the sinister kind of rubs me the wrong way.


How about "with hearts at the lower end"?

 
Mark Olivo
 
Avatar
 
 
Mark Olivo
Total Posts:  536
Joined  23-02-2005
 
 
 
21 August 2006 22:02
 

Darn, can’t see the image anymore.  Can you fix?  Try imageshack.us

UPDATE: Nevermind, now it’s working…

 

UPDATE II: By the way, welcome to the board!

 
Hugh Brady
 
Avatar
 
 
Hugh Brady
Total Posts:  989
Joined  16-08-2005
 
 
 
21 August 2006 22:09
 

I don’t how radical this prescription is, but I’ll throw my two cents in.

Is the trefoil top of the staff supposed to represent an ermine spot? I’m not fond of that ragged staff with the trefoil/heart terminations. It looks a little too "playing card," I think.

 

I’d go something along the lines of Per pale Or and Vert a falcon ermine jessed proper and belled with bells in the shape of a heart Argent standing upon a ragged staff fesswise proper (or counterchanged).

 
Patrick Williams
 
Avatar
 
 
Patrick Williams
Total Posts:  1356
Joined  29-07-2006
 
 
 
21 August 2006 22:59
 

Joseph, are you talking about something like this?

The link to this rendition has been edited out. Trust me, it was ugly and not at all what Joseph had intended.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
Avatar
 
 
Joseph McMillan
Total Posts:  7658
Joined  08-06-2004
 
 
 
21 August 2006 23:07
 

No, about something very similar to Linus’s drawing, but with the falcon actually grasping the upper end of the upper ragged staff.

 
Donnchadh
 
Avatar
 
 
Donnchadh
Total Posts:  4101
Joined  13-07-2005
 
 
 
22 August 2006 02:23
 

Linus… I’m not sure where to begin.

First, congrats on catching the heraldry bug - it is a good thing! B) the symbols you are using for your wife are too complicated and unrecognizable so as to be difficult to appreciate them. I think like Hugh they come off as too ‘playing car’ like.

 

Now unlike my more learned and wiser brethren here I do not find too much at fault with a per pale shield. There are cases of them being used, though not many, but enough to warrant anyone who so chooses to display their arms this way. Our very own Mr. Jim Pelletier has a per pale coat of arms and it is very attractive and in the best tradition(s) of heraldry. Also if you look to the hyperlink that Mike S. has provided for the USHS you can see an example of a per pale arms that is very, very attractive that was made for one of the men who registered his arms the USHS.

 

If you are keen on keeping the per pale look place the falcon on the other side of the shield facing the proper direction. However, I would change the symbolism used to signify your wife. In the Irish tradition, for example, there are cases of arms that have a single Ermine spot (tail) as a charge, so you could place a heart in chief and an ermine spot in base on that part of the shield; you could even make that an Erminois (gold field) so to keep the Vert and Or theme and you could even make the pale division raguly. Namely: Per pale raguly Or and Vert, in dexter chief a heart Vert, and in dexter base an Ermine spot Sable, on the sinister a falcon closs Or.

 
Linusboarder
 
Avatar
 
 
Linusboarder
Total Posts:  732
Joined  20-08-2006
 
 
 
22 August 2006 09:02
 

First thanks for all the feedback, it has really been helpful.

I didn’t know anything about the when a charge faces left, so I have already gone into photoshop and flipped the image to fix that. Based on your feedback here’s the changed I plan on making:

 

a) Flip the shield to make the falcon facing the correct direction

 

b) fix the ermine. This will involve fixing the head of the ermine to make it less club like (thereby making it less ‘playing card’). I will also fix the shaft of it and make it straight.

 

c) figure out some way to put the ermine(s) in the falcon’s talons.

 

d) (optional) May also change from the 50/50 to a per bend rougly (i think that’s right)... similar to the way your own Jorge Luis Riviera, III has his, except a rougly instead of the wavey teeth things. (sorry not quite with the lingo yet), or I might play with some stuff and do something else.

 

However i won’t be able to work on this until Next week, as I am going out of town.

 

If anyone has any other suggestions I am all Ears. Thanks for all your help.

 
emrys
 
Avatar
 
 
emrys
Total Posts:  852
Joined  08-04-2006
 
 
 
22 August 2006 09:19
 

It is always a good idea to play around with a design, and look at other designs to get ideas or other symbols.

 
Patrick Williams
 
Avatar
 
 
Patrick Williams
Total Posts:  1356
Joined  29-07-2006
 
 
 
22 August 2006 10:05
 

And in that spirit, here’s a quick mock-up of the design I was thinking about earlier:

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g29/PaddyW_photos/linus2a.jpg

 

Just decided I’d do that for fun as I had a few minutes this morning! wink

 
Linusboarder
 
Avatar
 
 
Linusboarder
Total Posts:  732
Joined  20-08-2006
 
 
 
22 August 2006 10:16
 

I like that Patrick… Where’d you get the falcon from (draw it yourself?)

 
Patrick Williams
 
Avatar
 
 
Patrick Williams
Total Posts:  1356
Joined  29-07-2006
 
 
 
22 August 2006 11:52
 

Linusboarder wrote:

I like that Patrick… Where’d you get the falcon from (draw it yourself?)

 


No, I’m not nearly that talented. There’s a site on the web called heraldic clip art..heck it may be heraldicclipart.com for all I know, anyhow all their clip art is free to downlaod and use however. I just recolored it in mspaint. As a matter of fact, that’s where all the stuff I used in this rendition came from.

 
Linusboarder
 
Avatar
 
 
Linusboarder
Total Posts:  732
Joined  20-08-2006
 
 
 
22 August 2006 12:42
 

Thanks for the information.. i need to check it out, since I am not artistic in the least.