Spanish Grandees

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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26 September 2006 13:12
 

Now here’s an example of how the Spanish deal with ‘honors’ on a Coat of Arms:

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g29/PaddyW_photos/colonportlpic.gif

 

These are the arms of Colon of Portugal. You may remember that Christopher Columbus was really named Cristobal Colon and that he was from Genoa. After his New World voyages, Ferdinand and Isabella granted him honors to be displayed on his arms. His family arms were: Or a bend Azure a chief Gules. These honors were granted: Quarterly: 1st Castile, 2nd Leon, 3rd a bunch of islands Or floating in the sea Azure and 4th Azure five Anchors fesswise Or, two one and two with his family arms appearing in the base point. This is obviously not the exact blazon, but a way to describe them quickly.

 

Apparently, either Columbus/Colon himself or a descendant was later honored by the State of Portugal, as is reflected in the picture above. Quarterly: 1st & 4th Portugal, 2nd & 3rd The honors granted to Christopher Columbus by Spain with the Colon family arms in base point.

 

So, the Colon family arms are still there (although greatly diminished by the royal honors), which, I suppose, tells you something about how the Spanish think about CoA’s.

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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26 September 2006 13:30
 

And for reference, here’s Columbus’ arms as granted by Spain:

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g29/PaddyW_photos/columbusarms.gif

 

Oh, and the anchors were not part of the grant…my mistake.

 

From: http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/1492/columbus.html

 

"As a reward for his successful voyage of discovery, the Spanish sovereigns granted Columbus the right to a coat of arms. According to the blazon specified in letters patent dated May 20, 1493, Columbus was to bear in the first and the second quarters the royal charges of Castile and Léon—the castle and the lion—but with different tinctures or colors. In the third quarter would be islands in a wavy sea, and in the fourth, the customary arms of his family.

 

The earliest graphic representation of Columbus’ arms is found in his Book of Privileges and shows the significant modifications Columbus ordered by his own authority. In addition to the royal charges that were authorized in the top quarters, Columbus adopted the royal colors as well, added a continent among the islands in the third quarter, and for the fourth quarter borrowed five anchors in fess from the blazon of the Admiral of Castille. Columbus’ bold usurpation of the royal arms, as well as his choice of additional symbols, help to define his personality and his sense of the significance of his service to the Spanish monarchs."

 
Montferrato
 
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Montferrato
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26 September 2006 15:19
 

Gracias amigo

 
snelson
 
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snelson
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26 September 2006 15:50
 

Quote:

so, this website is not complete then i take it? for, it is missing, at least, the Duque de Tetuan, who by this title as a duke would be a grandee.


I have read that this website lists only those grandees who have registered their status as grandee with the Spanish Ministry of Justice.  I think the website omits those grandees who haven’t registered.  I don’t know if this is accurate or not.

 

Here is another example of the arms of Colon of Portugal, Pedro Nuño Colón de Portugal y Castro, Duque de Veragua, Knight

of the Golden Fleece, Viceroy of New Spain in 1673:

 

http://members.lycos.co.uk/heraldryjunkyard/26a.jpg

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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26 September 2006 18:37
 

I rechecked my source and the attributes I gave to the quarterings were incorrect. I have edited that post to update them. Additionally, this particular system was not adopted until the late 18th century.

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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26 September 2006 18:45
 

snelson wrote:

Here is another example of the arms of Colon of Portugal, Pedro Nuño Colón de Portugal y Castro, Duque de Veragua, Knight

of the Golden Fleece, Viceroy of New Spain in 1673:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/verysleepy/colon.jpg


This is fascinating. The first set of Colon arms I posted are those of the current (I believe) Duquesa of Veragua and are from the website that this thread is all about! However these much earlier ones that you show have Castro in the 3rd quarter. I’m going to have to do some research to see if the Colon family (descendants of Cristobal) married into the Portugese royal family and if so, when.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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27 September 2006 17:50
 

From early on in this thread—the cooking pots come with eels, not snakes.  The symbolism IIRC is that the leader was responsible for (among other things) feeding his followers, frequently symbolized by the cooking pots & eels.  An ell is (apparently, in Europe) cosidered edible - or even a delicacy—while a snake in one’s dinner would not carry the same positive implications.

(In an American context, one might similarly imagine/blazon/emblazon a chicken in every pot)

 
Donnchadh
 
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28 September 2006 00:46
 

Quote:

From early on in this thread—the cooking pots come with eels, not snakes. The symbolism IIRC is that the leader was responsible for (among other things) feeding his followers, frequently symbolized by the cooking pots & eels. An ell is (apparently, in Europe) cosidered edible - or even a delicacy—while a snake in one’s dinner would not carry the same positive implications.


See…this is why I said I needed to learn Spanish…LOL…I was thinking that serpiente (I think that was it) in the blazon meant serpents, as in snake.

 

I will say Mike that I have cousins in Ireland and I have twice had eel and I really rather liked it and no it did not taste like chicken…LOL.

 

I will further say that here in God’s own state of Colorado rattlesnake is very much a staple food for native Colorado cuisine and one can find it rather easily in many good restaurants and some will let you order it ahead of time and set a date to come in and eat it. I love rattlesnake myself; I love to hunt them in the Colorado way (simply using high boots and a two prong stick), to grill them over an open fire of mesquite wood, and followed by a healthy pint of beer (for me Irish stout). Um, um, um, um, um, um – delicious.

 

Disclaimer – of course I come from a pioneering/cowboy family that has been known to eat just about anything that we could find/hunt/catch on land or in a river or lake. If anyone ever came upon me camping out (real camping not preppy camping in a synthetic material tent mind you) one would see this. So please be gentle in any responses…LOL

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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29 September 2006 08:56
 

I must be getting senile, but didn’t someone a few weeks ago post a link to another page in this same site that provides a superb discussion of Spanish heraldry, much of it in English?

Maybe it was on another forum.

 

Anyway, go to http://grandesp.org.uk/heraldica/herald_en1.htm and follow the links.  Among other things, there’s a great explanation of how Spanish arms are composed.  Although maybe that’s in the Spanish language part of the site.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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29 September 2006 14:43
 

This is eve more confusing now, for in the section on charges dealing with animals and one reads this from section nine:


Quote:

ix. Among the reptiles, the snake is commonly found in its proper state, surrounding other charges in the shield, but also reduced to its head and neck, issuant from the end of the cross or more often out of a cauldron, the charge being described as gringolada.


So, for the Pacheco arms are these eels or snakes? In the blazon of these arms, which is in Spanish and what I was originally referring to about not being in English previously, it is mentioned as serpiente, which I just assumed was related to serpent and therefore snake. However, Mike’s point about eels makes a lot of sense and so it would seem they are meant to be eels. But, this section ix throws everything out of balance for me again.

 

So, are these charges “serpiente” snakes or eels?

 

P.S. Thanks for the English hyperlink Joe. I’d seen this before and appreciate it, but did not read all of it before. What I’d like to see, however and don’t right now, is the blazons one finds when they click on the shield thumbnails is an English translation for that blazon. Oh well…if whishes were horses, beggars would ride…

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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29 September 2006 17:09
 

Wel, Denny, whether they are snakes or eels, the gringolada may be one of the older Iberian charges that still appear on arms. To reinforce what Mike said earlier, they were seen as the mark of an Hombre Rico (rich man) whose duty was to keep a full pot at all times to feed the poor when things got tough.

The animals coming out are either snakes or eels, but does that really matter? It’s a gringolada nevertheless.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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29 September 2006 17:19
 

Well, Patrick, it does matter. As an artist, if I were approached by the rightful bearer of the arms to reproduce them for him but he could not tell me if they were eels or snakes I would have to ‘pick’ whichever one I wanted to illustrate. For me, as an artist, I’d feel most, and I mean most, uncomfortable with illustrating arms that may in fact be inaccurate.

Of course this is academic as I have not been approached by such a person. But, as a family member of mine who is a Pacheco-O’Connell approached me to do one for her I decided to alter the arms to make them more suitable for her I basically left them out for differencing. But, had I know there were either/or snake/eel I would have left them out because I did not know. And that is where the problem is for me and why it would matter to me as an artist.

 

Now does it really mean anything in the grand scheme of life? Absolutely not and nothing here does. But, in this little heraldic-art world I like to spend so much time in it does matter considerably. The meaning of food of any kind being in the boiler is most important of course…it’s just for the artist it is very important to have specifics in order to go forward.

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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29 September 2006 17:35
 

I know Denny, and I understand your feeling. This charge is apparently so old that even the experts are confused-I’d venture that nobody really knows whether they’re supposed to be snakes or eels. They’re green snaky-eely things coming out of a cauldron.

But for the record: serpiente in Spanish is most definitely snake. Eel is anguila. So if the blazon in Spanish says ‘serpientes’, then you’ve got snakes in that pot. Even if once upon a time they were anguilas. To correct an earlier error…the pot is a caldera, ‘gringolada’ means ‘having serpent heads’. For instance, from another blazon:

 

"de azur, una caldera jaquelada de oro y gules, gringolada de siete sierpes de sinople;" which translates, "azure a cooking pot checkered or and gules with seven serpent heads vert."

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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29 September 2006 17:50
 

If you scroll up to the top of page 3 in this discussion, you’ll find the arms of Pedro-Nunez Colon de Portugal y Castro. Does anyone know what the arms are depicted in the 4th quarter?

1st quarter is the arms of Christopher Columbus, second Portugal (quite a few of his ancestors appear to be cadets of the Portugese royal family), the 3rd quarter is Castro which he got through his mother. But what is the 4th?

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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29 September 2006 21:22
 

I woiuld speculate that the transformation of eels into snakes is rather akin to the transformation of buffalo horns in German crsts into elephant’s trunks.