A Few Newbie Questions

 
Trent
 
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Trent
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19 December 2006 10:17
 

Ben,

I put the word ape in quotes because it was the term that Guy or Mike used in the debate to which I referred.  It was used in one those long posts a few posts back.

 
Ben Foster
 
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Ben Foster
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19 December 2006 11:13
 

Trent wrote:

Ben,

I put the word ape in quotes because it was the term that Guy or Mike used in the debate to which I referred.  It was used in one those long posts a few posts back.


No problem smile  I knew you did not mean it in a negative manner.

 
loaba
 
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loaba
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19 December 2006 19:30
 

Linusboarder wrote:

I disagree as well. Many in common folk in Europe, such as merchants, have assumed and been granted arms.

Also In a different thread it is mentioned that Spain is going to (or considering) letting anyone who lives in a former territory of Spain (that includes US states like California, New Mexico, Texas, Colorado etc) to register their arms in Spain and having them be formally recognized by Spain. So it’s not just our view, but European countries that view our arms as equal to anything granted by a european government and given legal protection.

Hmm, do you have a link to this? As a native Texan of Spanish descent that’s quite relevent to me.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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19 December 2006 19:50
 

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, so let me just direct you to the Spain section of our article on foreign registration of arms in the news archive area, http://www.heraldrysociety.us/ForeignRegistration/index.php?page=register4&#spa

The official recognition of arms in Spain is legally done by chroniclers appointed by the Minister of Justice.  The last of these died just about a year ago.  No new chronicler has been appointed, and the rumor is that none is likely to be.

 

There was a thread a few months ago about a private society in Spain that will register arms through a notary—apparently a perfectly legitimate way of acquiring arms in Spain, but not a form of official recognition.

 
Linusboarder
 
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Linusboarder
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19 December 2006 20:14
 

Joseph McMillan wrote:

There was a thread a few months ago about a private society in Spain that will register arms through a notary—apparently a perfectly legitimate way of acquiring arms in Spain, but not a form of official recognition.


This is what i was referencing, Thanks Joe

 
AVD1
 
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AVD1
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20 December 2006 12:26
 

May be this is off topic and if so please Webmaster move it to the proper place. Probably I am repeating some of the information in the thread Joseph mention but trying to do a synthesis here

About the situation in Spain:

 

1. Traditionally the Chronicler was the appointed official to register and certify arms, with this document came an authorization to display that arms in your house, use them in seals, etc

2. Often the condition of Hidalgo and the right to bear arms were established in a legal process in the “Chancilleria”

3. Once the Chancillerias were closed the Chroniclers were entitled to deal with heraldic matters provided that the Secretary of Justice was in charge of any legal dispute or incident. That’s why the Chronicler is an official who needs the approval of the Secretary of Justice.

4. After the civil war and during the Franco’s era a Chronicler was appointed and (obviously) got the approval of the Secretary of Justice. Once Spain returned to be a Constitutional Monarchy, H.M. Juan Carlos I appointed another Chronicler (at least ‘de facto’) as part of many other symbolic acts to establish some distance from Franco’s regime. This person was appointed Chronicler of Castilla-Leon one of Spain’s autonomies. Some time after that Asturias (if I am not wrong) appointed another Chronicler, both of them noblemen. The Royal House commission several heraldic works to both of them and for a time they issued certifications to any Spanish citizen or a citizen of any of the former Spanish colonies and territories.

5. Nevertheless, mainly for political reasons the Secretary of Justice, after someone enquire, declared that the Chronicler of Castilla-Leon was not able officially perform any duty related with heraldry but the civic heraldry of Castilla Leon. Since then officially both Chroniclers are just in charge of Civic Heraldry.

6. Even before the Secretary of Justice declared the inability of the Chronicler of Castilla Leon it was possible to make a private registry of assumed arms in Spain, because is not against the law to assume arms in Spain, it never was (as far as I know) and today that situation is the same, I mean anyone can do a private registry of arms and anyone can assume arms (actually the Chronicler of Castilla Leon does, I mean register arms)

7. Assume arms, privately register them and notarize them is all possible because is not against the law. But some people have raised the question about publicly display, make seals, etc. This was exactly the terms of authorization of the Chronicler and since no one is entitled to do his duties only the King can do so. Explicit (obviously never done) or tacit when he grants nobility titles (and of course arms –generally augmentations)

 

Sorry it is so long reference but sometimes it’s hard to explain such a complicated situation. Bottom line:

 

Always citizens of the former Spanish territories could have arms recognized in Spain

 

Always was possible to assume arms

 

Today there is not official appointed as Chronicler King of Arms

 

Anyone can privately register arms in Spain (you don’t even need a organization to do this)

 

Can you publicly display your arms in Spain if they are assumed and privately registered? I don’t know. Something a court of justice has to resolve in Spain.

 
Andrew J Vidal
 
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Andrew J Vidal
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20 December 2006 13:39
 

http://www.spanisharmorial.com/index.html

That is the current Spanish College of Arms.  All of your questions can be answered there.  In my dealings with the so far, they have been very friendly and helpfull.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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20 December 2006 17:13
 

Andrew J Vidal wrote:

http://www.spanisharmorial.com/index.html

That is the current Spanish College of Arms. .


Yes, but understand that its standing is similar to that of the American College of Heraldry…it is a private organization, not an official state institution sanctioned by law.

 
AVD1
 
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AVD1
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20 December 2006 20:34
 

And not different from this site http://www.armorialpopular.com/adopciones/adopciones.html

They offer the same service with notarial registry. I mean private registry plus notarial registry.

 
Andrew J Vidal
 
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Andrew J Vidal
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20 December 2006 21:50
 

Correct, a private registry.  I should’ve stated that in my original post, my apologies if I mis-led!