My version of Mohamed’s arms in B&W sketch…

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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19 January 2007 14:35
 

Mohamed, here is a B&W sketch of the arms. I put ink to paper on the grid paper, which at this stage I normally just use pencil, so that’s why you’ll notice all of the notes and handwriting all over the place. But, I know that you wanted to see the progress. Remember this is only a sketch and is nowhere near the finished product.

By the by, with your arms not having a helm with mantle, which is where I usually like to create ‘movement’ I decided to do so with the shape of the shield and the overlapping of the wreath on the top of the shield; creating movement in heraldry is just what I love doing…I’m not a big stationary kind of guy. As we proceed I will post updated images here, so you can follow the process.

 

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9247/mohamedhossamarmsbwsketdt3.jpg

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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19 January 2007 14:38
 

I’m liking the design, but isn’t the crest a little large? Even when a helm isn’t used, shouldn’t the crest still be of the size that would sit on a helm in relation to the size of the shield?

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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19 January 2007 14:43
 

It is Patrick. I’ve only done a few without a helm and the crest was smaller on those. But, in this case I was thinking of making it stand out more, as from what I’ve read here from Mohamed it is very important to him. Perhaps I should scale it down, as the balance may be off because of it. Anyone else agree with Patrick?

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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19 January 2007 20:52
 

It might be a bit smaller, but that would IMO also call for a smaller wreath—i.e. if the crest is "scaled" to match the shield (as if a helmet were there) then ditto the wreath.

You’ve done a nice job of using simple variations in shield shape to create a very "moving" rendition.

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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20 January 2007 08:11
 

Give it a try at ‘actual’ size and see how it looks. If it’s too funky, just go back to what you have…it is a nice design after all.

 
MohamedHossam
 
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MohamedHossam
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20 January 2007 16:01
 

Very Nice!

Yeah, I really like the way you have drawn them like this. BTW, I will be mailing the payment today.

 

Just wondering but, is that a jousting style shield? It is very nice, I just wanted to know where you got the idea. The size of the crest is ok, no problem.

 

Thanks,

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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20 January 2007 19:18
 

no i wouldn’t call it a jousting shield really. it is missing the cut out for the lance to be one of those - although jousting shields are my personal favorite - so i wouldn’t really call it a jousting shield.

it is like one though in that it is not a standard straight line shield heater or otherwise. rather, i designed it like this to give it movement. i personally prefer to have movement with my achievements…i sort of have made it my thing. so somewhere in the rendering i try to create movement and this is the only place i can on yours as it has no mantle for me to do it with.

 

my absolute favorite form of movement to render is the helmet - though i don’t know what it is called - that looks as though it is ‘folded’ over on itself sort of; the top of the jousting helmet clearly visible along with the opposite side of the visor and all. if you don’t catch what i’m saying i’ll post a link to some examples.

 

the only problem, for me anyway, is that i can’t seem to find a suitable way to marry my favorite overall design style, which is Nordic, with this sort of helm and a jousting shield and my mottoes in Irish. yes, i tried it and i threw it away when i finished with it…it was that bad. some things i just can’t make happen i guess…sigh…

 
MohamedHossam
 
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MohamedHossam
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20 January 2007 19:40
 

I’d be interested in knowing what the little notes on the side say! I really like knowing the "making of…" story behind it!

It is a very elegant and classical design.

 

Regards,

 
Rob McLaughlin
 
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Rob McLaughlin
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20 January 2007 20:30
 

Donnchadh wrote:

my absolute favorite form of movement to render is the helmet - though i don’t know what it is called - that looks as though it is ‘folded’ over on itself sort of; the top of the jousting helmet clearly visible along with the opposite side of the visor and all. if you don’t catch what i’m saying i’ll post a link to some examples.


Denny,

 

Could you provide a link to an example…I can’t envision what you are describing.

 

Thanks,

 

Rob

 
Guy Power
 
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Guy Power
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20 January 2007 21:08
 

Rob McLaughlin wrote:

...I can’t envision what you are describing.


Gee .... it sort of sounds like the "duck bill" that was popular in the 16th century.  See the two stall plates below the major one in the center:

http://www.stgeorges-windsor.org/images/hist_garter1p.gif

 

—Guy

 
MohamedHossam
 
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MohamedHossam
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20 January 2007 21:13
 

I dunno why those style helmets always make me laugh. I can imagine a young squire pouring in soup to a hungry knight inside!

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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21 January 2007 00:24
 

Yes Rob, Guy is right and that is it.

Also look at Andrew Jamieson’s webpage in the heraldic achievements section on the second row second from the right and third row second from the left.

http://www.medieval-arts.co.uk/

and here at his artist’s page for the SHA on the bottom right

http://www.heraldic-arts.com/jamieson.htm

 

And here at Mr. Lancaster’s artist page for the SHA in the first illumination shown at top and the last one at the bottom – not the book – on the left

http://www.heraldic-arts.com/lancaster.htm

 

And here at Mr. Wood’s artist page for the SHA in bottom right

http://www.heraldic-arts.com/wooda.htm

 

And at Marco Foppoli’s webpage in his rendition of Nicolas’ (AHS member) arms but also in MP’s distinctive style fifth row down and second from right

http://www.marcofoppoli.com/index.php?p=galleria

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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21 January 2007 00:28
 

Mohamed, it is just things like your name at top and the blazon by the crest and arms and personal notes on the base discussing how I want it to come out, what I want top portray – like the movement I mentioned already – and stuff like that.

 
MohamedHossam
 
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MohamedHossam
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21 January 2007 00:53
 

Very brief and simple question, what name did you put? Also, what name would my arms be listed under in the member’s arms pages? As someone knowledgeable in Arabic names will tell you, like David Appleton, we don’t have surnames so to speak. Exceptions are illustrious and aristorcratic families, such as Hassan Kelisli-Morali.

My name is actually my name (Mohamed) then my father (Hossam el Din) then my grandfather who I am named after (Mohamed). The name that I usually use as my last name is my great grandfather’s first name (Abd el Rahman). Would this be what I would use in the arms list? It is one of those names sometimes spelled "Abdul". I have even seen my great-grandfather’s name written as Abdurrahman, mostly in reference to rulers of the Islamic states in Andalusia in the early middle ages, such as Cordoba (Qurtubah in Arabic) and others. (Islamic history being one of my areas of expertise!:))

 

Regards,

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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21 January 2007 01:26
 

Quote:

Very brief and simple question, what name did you put?

Very brief answer: I put what you post here, "Mohamed Hossam" and conclude with Achievement.

I put every client’s name at the top of the grid page and keep it in a personal file along with other stages of the creation of my rendition. I do this so I can retain them for my records. This is only for my records and is not normally for public view per se – not secret just don’t usually share it at this stage. So, theoretically, if I wanted to label this one “Star Trek” and Chap’s “Star Trek Next Generation” and then Mike’s “Star Trek Deep Space Nine” and so on I’d do it if it helped me keep good records. But of course I’d never call you "Star trek". (Strange example, but…)

 

I do not put names on any of my achievements, except for one, Mr. Ton de Witte, and I won’t frankly. That’s why in my price list I emailed you I mention that there are things I do not do and bookplates is one of them, which would have a name on it (even though Ton’s was not a bookplate, but merely a rendering with his name on it. So you should have no worries on how your name is on the final product – I won’t butcher it.

 

As far as names in the member’s arms section goes, I think you’d have to ask the powers that be here. My name is Donnchadh (Irish), but it was originally Dennis, and so since most people who know me still call me Dennis or Denny I make use of both here. And I do my business under Dennis as well. Now they listed it under the English version in the member’s arms page per my request, so I would think they’d do the same for you, but you’d have to ask them.

 
MohamedHossam
 
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MohamedHossam
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21 January 2007 01:31
 

Star Trek, LOL!

Yeah, I get the idea. That is a very clever thing to do btw. You know you should make like a catalog of your work.

 

PS—if you need any help at all with making a web site, I am currently taking Web Page Design (which I hope to major in, after changing my mind on other subj.‘s) and I am pretty good at HTML (don’t mean to brag;)).

 

Also know a lot of free servers. PM me for more info.

 

Cheers,