Joseph McMillan wrote:
Charles, welcome to the group.
Guys (no, not Power and Selvester, but lower-case guys): let’s keep in mind the policy stated on the front page of the forums under the heading "Heraldic Designs" in the "Open Discussion" area, which says:
"The use of the AHS Forum for extensive discussions working through the design is limited to AHS members and should be conducted in the section of the members’ area established for that purpose. Non-members may use this area to raise specific questions, but any exchanges concerning detailed design work should be pursued either by e-mail or using the personal messaging feature."
Those who wish to help Charles work through design options are encouraged to do so, but please take off-forum anything much more detailed than the exchanges that have already taken place.
Thanks very much.
If it is simply a matter of a membership fee, then I can remedy that.
James Dempster wrote:
I cannot comment on the origins of Mosteller as a surname (though it doesn’t look Welsh). However the arms
Per bend sinister Ermine and Ermines a lion rampant Or
are those of the Welsh family of Mostyn. Similar arms, usually guttee d’or and guttee de poix are used by Welsh Edward(e)s. Who, given the late use of patronymics in Wales may be closer relatives to the Mostyns than the surname suggests.
Assigning them to Mosteller may be the common bucket-shop practice of associating the surnames of families for whom they haven’t found arms with those of families of similar surname for which they have found arms.
A very quick search through the IGI suggests that Mosteller may have German origins (possibly Hesse).
James
Well, I had not known, until a few days ago, that Mosteller was supposedly of Welsh origin, according to some heraldry related websites.
My great-grandmother had a document of some sort, whether a letter or an actual government document I don’t recall, which I saw many, many years ago as a child. It led me to believe that our family was of German and Dutch ancestry. I don’t know where the document is, at present, though, and I don’t think that anyone in our family has really bothered with genealogy research. It’s never been an interest of mine, personally. But, it is nice to know that my understanding of our family’s roots is not completely out in left field. Thanks, James.
German is what I would have guessed from the sound of the name, but I guess it could also be Dutch—keeping in mind that "Dutch" in early US speech often referred to German (Deutsch), as with the Pennsylvania Dutch.
Checking the index to the 1800 census at Ancestry.com, I found Mostellers (or Mostaller, Mostoller) in two clusters: Pennsylvania/Western Maryland (Bucks & Somerset Co, PA) and western North Carolina (Lincoln Co). Both areas had heavy German populations, I believe, and the given names of those in Pennsylvania (such as Valentine and Frederic) would seem much more likely to be German than Welsh. And a little digging does seem to turn up burials in Lutheran cemeteries, marriages to families with clearly German names, etc.
(As an aside, has anyone else had the experience of running across Welsh attributions in their own genealogies with no apparent evidence or logic? I have probably four or five lines of ancestry with what are obviously English surnames—in one case (Barham) a name that’s as Anglo-Saxon as it could possibly be, and traceable to a family in Kent in the 16th century—that early 20th century family "historians" asserted without any explanation to be Welsh. It find it very bemusing.)
Anyway, getting back to heraldry, I would take with a shaker of salt any claims you find on an arms of the name website. You’ve already observed correctly that just because they’re the arms of someone with your name that doesn’t mean they’re your arms. But what makes it worse is that many of these sites will give everyone whose names sounds even remotely similar the same arms. The ones they give for Mosteller might well be the same as for Masters, Munster, or Mostrelski. In fact, I note that "House of Names" lists the name Javier as Welsh—and also as Portuguese and Spanish—and gives the same single coat of arms for all three. And for Javens. It’s all totally worthless.
Donnchadh wrote:
Hi Joe. I tried to keep it brief and general…did I slip? Let me know either here or in PM…I want to help newbies and lurkers etc, but I also want to follow procedure…thanks.
No, you’re fine. Just a friendly reminder to all involved that there’s a fuzzy line to watch out for.
Joseph McMillan wrote:
(As an aside, has anyone else had the experience of running across Welsh attributions in their own genealogies with no apparent evidence or logic?
Oh, yes. I have encountered this several times in my own genealogy, as you say, without any validity.
/Charles
Hello, Charles! Welcome to our humble forum! I’m eager to help you in designing your arms. You really will do well to join, however. You’ll not find a finer group of gentlemen anywhere on the Internet. I should know—they helped me design a CoA for myself and one for my mom. Then they helped me with my avatar! I think "above and beyond" accurately describes just how much members here are willing to help! :D
*edited by member*
The last few weeks have been somewhat hectic, after my father went back into the hospital, again. Barring any unforeseen obstacles popping up tomorrow, I will head down to the post office, and mail off my membership fee for this organization.
One of my aunts brought to me, today, a document from one of her sisters, which traces back my family name and line of genealogy a few hundred years. The name is German in origin, and traceable back to the Marsteller surname and an area called Pfungstadt, Hesse Germany. The entire document is over 80 pages in length.
I mailed a money order off, about an hour ago, from the post office for my membership fee.
Can’t wait
Welcome aboard! :D
Charles,
I am new to the Society (less than a month), and I agree with the above posts that this is a creative, friendly, and committed group of people. You can’t go wrong here!
You said earlier that you really weren’t much interested in the family history. I’m willing to bet that may have changed a bit with the family history your aunt gave you. I orginally limited my thinking to a shield that would be all about me…and changed my mind. I am fiercely proud of my heritage and (like you) fiercely proud to be an American (especially a Pennsylvanian, my bias). Therefore, I am looking for a creative way to reflect both in my shield.
Also, I think the idea of creating a shield for your wife as well is a great idea, especially if it is displayed side-by-side with yours. And perhaps the greatest honor you could render your son is a familial shield which he will inherit from you in turn, something he will be proud to pass to his children when he tells them "Your grandpap designed this." As important as your immediate family seems to be for you, it is something to consider. (A sense of personal identity and and one’s place "in the grand scheme of things" is something that is, sadly, lacking in our society today. Heraldry can be a wonderful way of providing both in a visual, concrete way.)
Welcome aboard and enjoy!
Amen and amen!
A couple of random thoughts:
—arrtibuting family names willy-nilly as Welsh somehow reminds me of the claim that on March 17, everyone is Irish. Or the tendency at the Scottish Games for every clan tent to recruit from the visiting crowd based on "sept" attributions in a dog-eared xerox copy of Scots Kith & Kin. Enjoy the beer & bangers, but don’t take it seriously.
—rather than a red roundel on a silver plate, why not green?—since a roundel Vert is frequently blazoned as a pomme. And IMO green apples (i.e. green varieties like Gravensteins, not unripe red ones) makes better cider anyway.
—and if someone else hasn’t already suggested it, stack the plates-with-apples in pale to allude, somewhat vaguely, to the arrangement of apples & plates in a cider press. Or place them on a pale, for the same reason.
As usual, just thoughts…
From the document pertaining to my family’s name:
"The Marsteller name is a "Trade name." Marsteller comes from the word "Marstall," which means "Hostler" or keeper of horses in a royal stable. The original spelling of the name was Marstaller. However, our ancestors changed the spelling to Marsteller sometime prior to the 1500’s. The Marstaller surname has appeared only among people of Germanic descent and, in comparison with other Germanic surnames, it has been born by a relatively small number of people.
A separate document within the overall folder of information states:
There is no reason known why our name would change from Marsteller to Mosteller within a few years, unless it may have been the way the name sounded to the North Carolina neighbors, about half of whom were English speaking people and half German speaking.
It goes on to say:
We have found record that Michael Mosteller was born on Dec. 21, 1751 - and baptized on Dec. 30, 1751 - parents Johan Peter Marsteller and wife Eva Elizabeth. This is a record found in St. Paul’s Lutheran and Reformed Church which was located in Upper Saucon Township in Lehigh County, Pennsylvania. At this date (1751), it is to be noted that this was then a part of Bucks County and one of the original counties of the colony and 14 years after Johan Peter Marsteller had arrived in Philadelphia on the ship "Townshend" from Amsterdam on October 5, 1737.
Accordingly, the focus on apples appears to be misplaced. That aside, on a humorous note, I don’t really like horses, a feeling which goes back to having a pony for a short while, as a small kid, which kept trying to bite me. Keeper of horses in a royal stable, indeed.
Charles Mosteller wrote:
[I That aside, on a humorous note, I don’t really like horses, a feeling which goes back to having a pony for a short while, as a small kid, which kept trying to bite me. Keeper of horses in a royal stable, indeed.
You really should not blame the pony as it is the ponies who are the victims in the long term, being slowly ignored as the children lose interest, only to be sent off to another family with an over enthusiastic child who pulls hard on the bit and kicks them too hard in the ribs and then looses interest in the animal. The cycle repeats over and over again leaving most ponies very skeptical about humans. I too had an experience with an angry pony, that of being kicked by one while in my mother’s womb. Both my mother and I survived the incident unscathed but the pony was sent away to another family (perpetuating the cycle). This however has never diminished my interest in horses, though if I wanted to ride in my present form, I would need to purchase a draft horse to avoid being accused of animal cruelty.
LOL! Draft horse, good one!:D
Ancestry can play an important role in deciding your armorial bearings, but it doesn’t have to. You can choose things that speak more to you rather than what the origins of your name say. Since you’re starting from scratch, the possibilities are endless!:p