American Heraldry

 
WBHenry
 
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WBHenry
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29 March 2007 15:03
 

Is anyone familiar with a book entitled "Heraldry and You:  Modern Heraldic Usage in America" by J. A. Reynolds (1961)?  What can you tell me?  Is it worth purchasing?  Thanks!

 
David Boven
 
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David Boven
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29 March 2007 16:22
 

FatherWilliam57;42834 wrote:

Is anyone familiar with a book entitled "Heraldry and You:  Modern Heraldic Usage in America" by J. A. Reynolds (1961)?  What can you tell me?  Is it worth purchasing?  Thanks!


It’s on my book shelf, and I read it a few years ago when I got it off eBay. I can’t tell you any specifics because I haven’t looked at it in a while, but I remember it being terrible both in text and (especially) illustrations. I’ll look at it tonight and let you know more specifics if you’d like.

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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29 March 2007 19:19
 

I think that purchasing this book or not should be dependent upon the number of beginner heraldry books that you already possess. If you do not have any heraldry books then it is an introduction to the topic.

 
WBHenry
 
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WBHenry
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02 April 2007 03:17
 

So…if I have already read Fox-Davies, Neubecker, Slater, and Woodcock (to name a few), skip this one?  The only reason I was looking at it was I didn’t have anything yet specifically on American heraldry.  Everyone mentions Zieber, but from what Mr. Boven stated, it doesn’t even come up to that level.  Thanks!

 
Hall/Perdue
 
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Hall/Perdue
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02 April 2007 06:21
 

I am glad to say that Director of Education, Mr. McMillan and myself will soon be posting an Early American Roll of Arms.  I too found the lack of information related to American Heraldry frustrating.  As I have already discussed with Mr. Boven and Mr. McMillan, the AHS site with its dedication to education would make it a perfect place to post such an armorial.  Unlike many other armorials, each CoA will be given with a reference.  The reference will allow further reading by the novice, and allow for peer review, by the more serious accademic.

Of course building this armorial will take time.  I render the images myself.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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02 April 2007 06:47
 

FatherWilliam57;42960 wrote:

So…if I have already read Fox-Davies, Neubecker, Slater, and Woodcock (to name a few), skip this one? The only reason I was looking at it was I didn’t have anything yet specifically on American heraldry. Everyone mentions Zieber, but from what Mr. Boven stated, it doesn’t even come up to that level. Thanks!


It’s true that most books on heraldry in English are mainly about English heraldry.  Most 19th century Americans who wrote about heraldry were in thrall to what they understood as the English "rules," so they tended to parrot English authors.

 

I’m not sure what Dave said about Zieber that you’re referring to.  It’s a good source on American heraldic practice, and contains a reasonably sound primer on heraldry generally.  But it’s not in the league of Brooke-Little’s revisions of Boutell.

 
David Boven
 
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David Boven
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02 April 2007 07:39
 

Joseph McMillan;42963 wrote:

I’m not sure what Dave said about Zieber that you’re referring to.  It’s a good source on American heraldic practice, and contains a reasonably sound primer on heraldry generally.  But it’s not in the league of Brooke-Little’s revisions of Boutell.


Perhaps we’ll someday be able to read McMillan’s revisions of Zieber and get an up-to-date description of American heraldry that does not look to the English as the ultimate authority. Has anyone ever considered doing a revision of Zieber in this way? It must be getting pretty close to being in the public domain so no special permission would be needed.

 
WBHenry
 
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WBHenry
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02 April 2007 11:48
 

Sorry, Joseph, my fingers were again typing faster than my brain.  David didn’t specifically say anything about Zieber in this thread.  What I meant to say is his impression of the Reynolds book led me to believe that it didn’t even come up to the level of what I have heard others say about the Zieber book…which also seems to leave a great bit to be desired.  Didn’t mean to put words in David’s mouth, just my impression of what I "heard" from other threads about Zieber.  So, I assume I should "pass" on Reynolds and wait to purchase Zieber.  Fair assesment?

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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02 April 2007 12:06
 

David Boven;42965 wrote:

Perhaps we’ll someday be able to read McMillan’s revisions of Zieber and get an up-to-date description of American heraldry that does not look to the English as the ultimate authority. Has anyone ever considered doing a revision of Zieber in this way? It must be getting pretty close to being in the public domain so no special permission would be needed.


Don’t hold your breath for McMillan’s revision!  (Although, as I think about it, it’s an intriguing idea… substitute our guidelines for his suggested rules on heraldry in the US… draw on a wider selection of examples of historic usage, going beyond the east coast…hmmm.)

 

Zieber is long since in the public domain, which is how whoever it was—Crown, as I recall—could reprint it a couple of decades back.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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02 April 2007 12:08
 

Hall/Perdue;42961 wrote:

I am glad to say that Director of Education, Mr. McMillan and myself will soon be posting an Early American Roll of Arms. I too found the lack of information related to American Heraldry frustrating. As I have already discussed with Mr. Boven and Mr. McMillan, the AHS site with its dedication to education would make it a perfect place to post such an armorial. Unlike many other armorials, each CoA will be given with a reference. The reference will allow further reading by the novice, and allow for peer review, by the more serious accademic.

Of course building this armorial will take time. I render the images myself.


The first five entries are now up on the site.  See http://americanheraldry.org/pages/index.php?n=Main.Roll

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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02 April 2007 12:22
 

Wow! Terrific! Congrats.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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02 April 2007 12:42
 

By the way, for a list of resources on American historical arms, see http://americanheraldry.org/pages/index.php?n=Books.Bibliography#toc3. To these could be added the very scholarly but hard to find Heraldic Journal published by the founders of the NEHGS Committee on Heraldry for four years right after the Great Misunderstanding of 1861-65.

 
davidappleton
 
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davidappleton
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02 April 2007 13:42
 

Joseph McMillan;42980 wrote:

By the way, for a list of resources on American historical arms, see http://americanheraldry.org/pages/index.php?n=Books.Bibliography#toc3. To these could be added the very scholarly but hard to find Heraldic Journal published by the founders of the NEHGS Committee on Heraldry for four years right after the Great Misunderstanding of 1861-65.


Not all that hard to find, though a little pricier than I think it ought to be.  There was a reprint of all four volumes of The Heraldic Journal as a single volume.  ISBN 0806304936, Published in Baltimore by Maryland Genealogical Publishing Co., 1972.  Used copies of this volume, as well as of the original four volume compilation done in the 1860s can be found easily enough by searching for "Heraldic Journal" on such websites as alibris.com or bookfinder.com

 

David

 
Hugh Brady
 
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Hugh Brady
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02 April 2007 18:21
 

I have the 4 volumes on a cd-rom that I ordered from a seller on Ebay. It was like 10 bucks,