CoA for Club

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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05 April 2007 13:20
 

I mentioned in my introductory post that I would like some assistance in designing a CoA for a group of which I am a member.  It is called the Association of Disparate Gentlemen, and it’s motto is "Dedicated to the Enjoyment of All Things Manly."  The group decided that it needed a Coat of Arms and I insisted that it be done right, so I began researching the subject, which led me to this Society.

Anyway, in discussion with some of my fellow members, we decided on several elements that we would like included in the achievement, although these are just rough ideas of what we would like to include.

 

Colors:  The colors that we have been using is a deep red (sanguine), ash-gray (cendree), an white (argent).  This might be a little monochrome, so it would be okay to throw some gold in there as well.

 

Charges:  Many of the members of our group play games, anything from computer games to board games to tabletop war-games.  To represent this we initially thought of a chess rook, which would represent the games and the tactical nature of many of them.  However, we decided we liked a chess bishop better as that could do double-duty, representing the gaming and our faith.  Second, we thought of including a charge to represent our meetings, most of which involve beer and/or tobacco.  Ideas for this were a barrel/keg, with a pipe and a cigar in saltire over it.

 

Helm:  Obviously we want to use the Gentlemen’s (Tilting) helm.

 

Crest:  We’d like to use a crow in our crest, as it has a triple meaning of "Strategist in battle; watchful for friends; divine providence."

 

So that kind of sums it up.  We tried to keep it fairly simple, but still representative of the club and its activities.

 

Now, one thing that we haven’t really been able to nail down is how to arrange the charges on the shield, what sort, if any, of field divisions to use, etc.  We’d also like to design a badge to go with the achievement, probably based on the crest.

 

Also, I guess it would be helpful to know how the Achievement is to be used.  We’ll be designing a website, on which the CoA will feature prominently, as well as Cafepress-type apparel.

 

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

JRB

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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05 April 2007 15:04
 

Yes, one suggestion right away.  Throw the cendree in the ash-can.  Cendree, based on what I was able to figure out when delving into this a couple of years ago, a color used in French blazonry only* to describe gray objects that would be blazoned as "proper" in English.  If you have a naturally gray object in your arms, you should blazon it "proper" unless you choose to blazon it in French.

Personally, I would also stay away from the stains like sanguine unless there’s some particular symbolism you’re going for.  There’s no reason Gules can’t be emblazoned in a deep shade.  But that’s purely my own taste.

 

_____________

 

*"Only" as in I was not able to find it used any other way.

 
Linusboarder
 
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Linusboarder
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05 April 2007 15:17
 

Jon-these are fun projects and i love adding my 2ยข (ok more like 2$ worth) in.

Colors Since joining the board, I have not heard once of any arms decifering a difference between White and Ash grey. They usually just call it Argent (which is french for Silver). I guess this can be confusing if you’re dead set on White or Silver, but to my knowledge (which is limited when compared to my fellow AHS members) there is not distinction between grey and white.

 

Charges I like the idea of a Bishop and i like the symbolism involved. I think with all the charges you might have clutter problems. Maybe an alternative way to show tobbacco or alchohol might be a good idea. (maybe a chief wavy Argent. So it looks like smoke at the top of the shield.Or IMO even better a border wavy Argent or Sable to look like a shield filling up with smoke)

 

Also in the crest you could have a crow holding a stalk of wheat (i.e. beer) in it’s beak

 

So I guess my initial idea would be:

 

Sanguine, on a bend Sable fimbriated Or 2 chess bishops Argent, overall inside a border wavy Argent

 

Crest-A crow proper wings elevated holding an ear of wheat Or within it’s beak

 
arriano
 
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arriano
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05 April 2007 16:47
 

Linusboarder;43178 wrote:

Also in the crest you could have a crow holding a stalk of wheat (i.e. beer) in it’s beak


While there is wheat beer, I’d suggest barley instead since that’s the more common ingredient. Or maybe even a hop vine. smile

 
James Dempster
 
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James Dempster
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05 April 2007 17:27
 

I would lose the pipe and cigar and going with Linusboarder’s idea of the crow with something in its beak and suggest that you could have a crow with stalks of barley and tobacco saltirewise in its beak thereby combining your original thoughts in an more allusive manner.

This just leaves a chess bishop on the field which is certainly uncluttered, but may be too allusive only to chess.

 

One thought that springs to mind is to have the bishop in the honour point between two lions counter-combatant. This brings out the idea of competition and you can’t have anything more "manly" than an heraldic lion.

 

James

 
Linusboarder
 
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Linusboarder
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05 April 2007 18:07
 

I certainly like the idea of Barley instead of Wheat (i am partial to wheat beers by the way)

I also like the idea of the bishop inbetween 2 counter-combatant lions.

 

What about:

 

Per Pale, Gulles and Argent, in the honor point between two lions counter-combatant, counter-charged a chess bishop counter-charged.

 

Then in the Crest:

 

A crow proper wings elevated holding an ear (not sure what barley icomes as) of barley and tobbacco leaf in saltire.

 
Trent
 
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Trent
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05 April 2007 18:16
 

As mentioned above, a chess playing piece will allude to chess in particular instead of gaming in general.  Can’t think of a general gaming symbol at the moment other than a wreath of laurel leaves.

I love the idea of the barley and tobacco stalks in saltire, but I would have them stand alone on a field.  Maybe gold and charged on the shoulder/side of a black cock (punning "manly" focus of the club).

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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05 April 2007 19:22
 

May I suggest a different design for the crest? As I mentioned a few weeks ago, when I was living in Estonia, I became friends with their armed forces herald who worked at the Estonian Society for Protection of Antiquities. From his office he designs the civic arms, seals and flags of the local governments of Estonia as well as the heraldic needs of the national government. The Estonian Society for Protection of Antiquities also manages the Estonian Armorial Register with the original grants being deposited with the State Chancellery of the Republic of Estonia. As I wrote earlier, I had my arms designed upon some incorrect genealogy which is why I have since discarded them. I did however find the crest of these arms most attractive, therefore I suggest that Johnathan consider the basic concept of my old crest with one particular change for his society.

Please remember that this image comes from a colour copy of the original document and is therefore not of the best quality.

 

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1308/dsc00207wv9.jpg

 

I suggest that your society simply replace the head of the black hunting dog with the head of a black crow. The ‘crown’ of my crest is made of dried tobacco leaves.

 
Linusboarder
 
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Linusboarder
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05 April 2007 19:28
 

I don’t know what other symbol could be used to represent "games"in general…

I think maybe a Chess Rook or Knight might look slightly better than a bishop for that context, but I can’t think of anything off the toip of my head that has a gamier appeal

 

 

And I like Davids photo a lot too. You could even have a whole crow, and not just the head of a crow there.

 
Trent
 
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Trent
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05 April 2007 19:35
 

The thing about using a chess piece is that it would make the arms look like the arms of a chess club.  Maybe not so much if he used a heraldic chess rook, since most people won’t recognize it as that, but then that would defeat the purpose if they did recognize it for what it was.

I like that crown of tobacco leaves.  How about a crown/circlet of tobacco leaves alternating with barley to keep the beer reference in?

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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05 April 2007 20:32
 

Joseph McMillan;43177 wrote:

Yes, one suggestion right away.  Throw the cendree in the ash-can. *Snip*

Personally, I would also stay away from the stains like sanguine unless there’s some particular symbolism you’re going for.  There’s no reason Gules can’t be emblazoned in a deep shade.  But that’s purely my own taste.


I mentioned Cendree because it was the only way to blazon a difference between grey/white, although these colors were only meant as a jumping off point.  I will bow to the wisdom of one far more knowledgable than I and settle for simply Argent.

 

As for using Sanguine, we just wanted to make sure that the red was a deep rich color, and not too bright.  I thought by using Sanguine it would make it clear to any heraldic artist that a darker shade of red was required.  If this is not in accordance with "best practices," we can simply make it Gules.

 

In fact, the more I consider it, I think that Gules/Argent/Sable/Or seems to be the way to go.


David Pritchard;43188 wrote:

I suggest that your society simply replace the head of the black hunting dog with the head of a black crow. The ‘crown’ of my crest is made of dried tobacco leaves.


I really like the crown of tobacco leaves.  It’s subtle, but still meaningful, and looks great.


Trent;43190 wrote:

The thing about using a chess piece is that it would make the arms look like the arms of a chess club.


I had thought about that as well.  However, the only other general gaming implement that I can think of is a die.  I know that it’s not unprecedented to use them in an achievement, but it doesn’t seem to be a very common practice and I didn’t want to go that way if it seemed too "modern."

 

Also, I forgot who mentioned it, but the idea of two combatant lions, is not bad either.  It does seem to capture the spirit of competitiveness.

 

Anyway, I appreciate all the help so far.  The ideas have been great so far.

 

Quick summary of ideas that I liked best:

 

Colors: Gules/Argent/Sable/Or

Charges: Chess Piece (Bishop?), Die?, Combantant Creatures

Helm: Tilting Helm

Crest: Crow issuing from crown of tobacco leaves with a hop vine in his beak.

 

JRB

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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05 April 2007 22:00
 

Just to see how far my meager Photoshop skills can get me, I slapped this together with some clipart I found online.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/jonishairy/Untitled-1.gif

 

Not perfect, I know.  But it was really just to help me get a general idea of the emblazonment.

 

JRBaker

 
Trent
 
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Trent
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05 April 2007 23:20
 

Would you consider using a chess board pattern (chequy) to signify chess instead of a chess piece?  The pattern is a slightly less specific reference to the game.

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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05 April 2007 23:44
 

The design that Johnathan has devised is attractive. I do not care for the gratuitous crosses. Why must we in heraldry feel compelled to fill every empty space with a cross, thus rendering them as meaningless as the overused green wreath encircling a crest? I suggest that the crosses be replaced with three tuns (large wooden casks for fermenting wine and spirits), that is unless the society as a whole prays before playing, smoking, drinking and so forth.

 
WBHenry
 
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WBHenry
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05 April 2007 23:46
 

I was afraid from the comments on the thread that it might come out looking like a chess club as well.  But with what Jonathan has done here, the bishop says "chess" and the critters say "D&D" (at least to me).  If another charge was used in chief (perhaps dice, but I’m not keen on that), maybe he’s on to something here that says "gamers," not just chess.  One other thing:  I know you exlplained using a bishop, but if this is a "manly man’s club," why not use the king instead?  After all, there would be a cross on the crown, right?

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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05 April 2007 23:54
 

David Pritchard;43212 wrote:

\I do not care for the gratuitous crosses. Why must we in heraldry feel compelled to fill every empty space with a cross, thus rendering them as meaningless as the overused green wreath encircling a crest? I suggest that the crosses be replaced with three tuns (large wooden casks for fermenting wine and spirits), that is unless the society as a whole prays before playing, smoking, drinking and so forth.


The crosses were really only put there as placeholders…I just thought the blank chief threw the shield off-balance.  I like the idea of the tuns.  We’ll see how it looks.


WBHenry;43213 wrote:

I know you exlplained using a bishop, but if this is a "manly man’s club," why not use the king instead?  After all, there would be a cross on the crown, right?


I like this idea, too.  We are, after all, supposed to be the kings of our castles.

 

**looks over his shoulder to make sure his wife isn’t reading this**

 

JRB