Double Fimbriation?

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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17 May 2007 10:22
 

Here’s a question for those more learned in the art and science of heraldry:  Is it possible to have a double fimbriation?  I ask because I was working with David Shorey on a badge design for him, and the design that resulted is attractive, I’m just not sure how it would be blazoned.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/jonishairy/Heraldry/ShoreyBadge4.gif

Anyway, if anybody knows a way to blazon something like this, please let me know.

 

Thanks,

 
Sandy Turnbull
 
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Sandy Turnbull
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17 May 2007 10:41
 

I would guess at:

on a cross nowed Vert another Sable fimbriated Or charged with a dolphin naiant of the last

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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17 May 2007 11:00
 

Sandy Turnbull;45015 wrote:

I would guess at:

on a cross nowed Vert another Sable fimbriated Or charged with a dolphin naiant of the last


Now that is very clever blazoning. I would have never thought of it.

 

On an additional note, have bottony, pommy or fleury terminating ends on the cross been considered? Everything about this badge is curvilinear except the ends of the arms of the cross. The badge would be more unified if the curvilinear lines were maintained through out the badge.

 
Alex Maxwell Findlater
 
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Alex Maxwell Findlater
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17 May 2007 12:15
 

Sandy Turnbull;45015 wrote:

I would guess at:

on a cross nowed Vert another Sable fimbriated Or charged with a dolphin naiant of the last


The width of the Vert could be anything with this blazon, so although I like it for its elegance, do you think it would be permissible to say:

 

On a cross nowed Sable double-fimbriated Or and Vert a dolphin naiant Or

 
MohamedHossam
 
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MohamedHossam
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17 May 2007 12:24
 

oooh!

Very nice. I think it somewhat resembles an Order or other insignia. Very elegant, simple, and consistent with the design of the arms, which are very nice by the way! :D

 

Cheers,

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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17 May 2007 13:27
 

i love the design jonathan! and i love the clever blazon sandy! kudos to jonathan and dave s.

 
DRShorey
 
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17 May 2007 13:29
 

I want to publically thank jonathan for working with me on the badge and thanks all for your input and guidance.

I had though about rounding the ends, but wanted to echo the embattled aspect of the chief and fimbriation. But certainly am open to other thoughts.

 

Dave Shorey

 

p.s. Denny - nice Bridget’s wheel

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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17 May 2007 13:36
 

thanks dave. i appreciate it. amongst many things she is patroness of is artisans, so i have a special attraction (poor choice of word) to her.

i wouldn’t round the ends. personally i like it the way it is…i think it captures elements of color and structure and the dolphin charge from your arms and is a great compliment to them as is. of course that is only my personal opinion and in art there are bound to be others that disagree…but my vote is to keep it the way jonathan and u have it now…very nicely conceived and executed i think.

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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17 May 2007 13:50
 

I appreciate the kind words but it was all David in the design department.  He knew what he wanted, and I just rendered it for him so he could make sure that’s what he wants.  I do agree, though, that this is a really nice badge.  It ties in so nicely with his shield.

 
David Pritchard
 
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17 May 2007 15:55
 

DRShorey;45026 wrote:

I had though about rounding the ends, but wanted to echo the embattled aspect of the chief and fimbriation. But certainly am open to other thoughts.


Now that you have pointed out the relationship between the square ends of the cross and the embattled chief, your design makes perfect sense. If you are following the design of your arms, have you considered making the green cross or green fimbriation a little wider?

 
Iain Boyd
 
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Iain Boyd
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17 May 2007 20:30
 

Dear Dave,

I appreciate that the dolphin in your new badge mirrors the position of the dolphin on your shield.

 

However, I feel that it might look better if the whole design was rotated clockwise by 90 degress so that the dolphin is erect.

 

Regards,

 

Iain Boyd

 
Trent
 
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Trent
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18 May 2007 00:35
 

I think the dolphin on the cross might be too small to see if it is produced as a badge.

It seems like the sable field in the cross needs some added detail, perforations or something.

 

How about making the dolphin(s) the primary element?

 

http://excoboard.com/forums/18883/user/175909/242343.gif

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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18 May 2007 11:20
 

Good point about the black Trent. It’s important to remember I think that the sable can be visually spiced up by either using a mix of different tints, shades, hues, highlights, or shadowing of black or even diapering the later a technique I am no where near getting right myself.

A good artist could make use of tint and hue and highlight and shadow on the sable to make it more visually stimulating if that’s what the armiger wants. A masterful artist, like our own Alex, or Jamieson, or de Bruin, or Fopoli (sp?), etc., could do diapering for Dave. But, I don’t think the sable is a big problem really.

 

I do like David’s idea of making the fimbriations a little wider, but keeping the same design, which I think is near, if not completely, brilliant. I can see the dolphin’s position changed in my mind’s eye and I think it’d be attractive that way also…that one I think would be a matter of taste for the armiger because both would be attractive.

 

Of course these are only my opinions and nothing more.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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18 May 2007 11:53
 

Trent;45051 wrote:

I think the dolphin on the cross might be too small to see if it is produced as a badge.

It seems like the sable field in the cross needs some added detail, perforations or something.

 

How about making the dolphin(s) the primary element?

 

http://excoboard.com/forums/18883/user/175909/242343.gif


Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to see the picture being discussed, but I’d observe that there’s no reason, on a badge, that the dolphin has to fit within the cross.  The cross could be used as a backing and the dolphin superimposed on it, like the holly leaves on the star in my badge.

 

(I’d avoid Trent’s design above:  it looks like a design for the cap badge of a Soviet submariner.  Sorry.)

 
DRShorey
 
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DRShorey
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18 May 2007 12:16
 

Howdy all,

I just want to say how incredibly amazing you all are. This is such a wonderful community. Thank you for you comments and suggestions.

 

A few comments. The image that Jonathan posted, I believe was done in about 10 minutes around midnight during one of the great chat sessions that forum members have been have been having. The final image will need some adjusting, but generally I think the concept is complete. I think that the fimbriation will need to be played with in width as David P. suggested.

 

As to the size and orientation of the dolphin…boy some of these heraldic dolphins can look fairly puny eh? wink

 

Did we ever come to a conlusion on the blazon?

 

Thanks again.

 

Dave Shorey

 
Trent
 
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Trent
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18 May 2007 13:13
 

Blazon:

On a <> cross Sable fimbriated Or and Vert, a dolphin naiant of the second.

What type of cross is that?  It looks like a celtic cross, but it does not have the four holes that a typical celtic cross does and it’s shorter.