Double Fimbriation?

 
DRShorey
 
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DRShorey
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18 May 2007 13:55
 

my inspiration was the celtic cross…a nod to my celtic heritage.

Would it be appropriate to use the opposite of voided…filled?

 

on a filled celtic cross….???

 

Dave

 
Trent
 
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Trent
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18 May 2007 14:15
 

Not sure.  Maybe you’ve created some new type of celtic cross.

I’ll keep looking for the design, but On a Greek cross Sable, a pellet; the whole fimbriated Or and Vert and surmounted by a dolphin naiant of the second might yield what you want.

 
Alex Maxwell Findlater
 
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Alex Maxwell Findlater
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18 May 2007 15:45
 

The round shape at the centre of the cross nowed is meant to represent the cords tying (nouer = to tie) the two pieces of wood together; I think it’s a bit far-fetched myself. If you are thinking of a celtic cross, then it has a circle around the crossing, but although you could imagine it, I don’t think you could call it a cross nowed voided, that would be a real nonsense!

For the purpose of this badge, the voiding of the cross would take away from the impact of the Dolphin, so I wouldn’t go for it.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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18 May 2007 16:28
 

Alex is right, this is a cross nowed, or nowy.  If you aren’t comfortable with the term "double-fimbriation" (I’m not), you could blazon it as "a cross nowy vert charged with another sable fimbriated or, and thereon a dolphin naiant of the same."

Personally, as I mentioned off-line, I’d do away with one or the other of the fimbriations (probably the gold one, so you could keep all three of your tinctures in the badge).

 

In any case, if you still want to maintain the embattled line of your chief, how about embattling the ends of the cross with one crenelle at each end?

 

Here’s a Canadian cross nowy erable’ (with maple leafs coming out of the ends), mainly to illustrate what a cross nowy looks like:

 

http://www.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/ProjectPics/iii055_19940083_arms_sh_sm.jpg

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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18 May 2007 17:51
 

Joseph McMillan;45086 wrote:

Alex is right, this is a cross nowed, or nowy.  If you aren’t comfortable with the term "double-fimbriation" (I’m not), you could blazon it as "a cross nowy vert charged with another sable fimbriated or, and thereon a dolphin naiant of the same."


That’s right, Joe….mock the new guy. :p I knew that double-fimbriation wouldn’t work, but I also figured that someone on here would know how to blazon it correctly.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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18 May 2007 18:00
 

Dave, I think having a cross nowy gives the appearance of a Celtic cross anyway. So, while it may not strictly be a Celtic Cross, its appearance can lead one to think that, so I wouldn’t fret over that. I think blazoning it like Alex and/or Joe suggested would be a very safe bet, as their knowledge of the language of blazon is far superior to mine and what they said makes sense to me…as did Trent’s, so…I think it is there.

I can see what Joe is saying and it is good advice. Artistically sound…certainly heraldically sound…but I still happen to like the Or myself…I like the play between the three colors very much, but that is only a matter of my personal taste and as such really shouldn’t have much bearing on anything…just food for thought and a vote to keep it this way…not that you need our votes mind you… wink , the circle that encircles the center of the cross that makes it a Celtic Cross…of course I’ve seen Celtic Crosses that have no circle, are short stemmed as well, but are loaded with knot-work throughout the stems and center point. Just a FYI thing.

 
Trent
 
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Trent
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18 May 2007 19:50
 

Wouldn’t "charged with another" simply yield a cross nowy with a small cross nowy in the center of the first instead of a fimbriated line?

 
Trent
 
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18 May 2007 20:18
 

The third flag on this link is the closest thing I could find to the kind of double fimbriation you want.

http://www.fotw.net/flags/de@yct.html

 

The 8th flag on this one: http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/de@ycl.html

 

The 2nd flag on this one: http://www.fahnenversand.de/fotw/flags/de@yco.html

 

Seems to be a popular charge among German yacht clubs.

 
Trent
 
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Trent
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18 May 2007 20:49
 

Joseph McMillan;45086 wrote:

Alex is right, this is a cross nowed, or nowy.  If you aren’t comfortable with the term "double-fimbriation" (I’m not), you could blazon it as "a cross nowy vert charged with another sable fimbriated or, and thereon a dolphin naiant of the same."

I’m not sure if that would produce the Vert fimbriation.  It seems like it would produce the following (with the cross being nowy instead):

http://excoboard.com/forums/18883/user/175909/242439.gif

 

 
Trent
 
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Trent
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18 May 2007 20:53
 

Joseph McMillan;45086 wrote:

Alex is right, this is a cross nowed, or nowy.  If you aren’t comfortable with the term "double-fimbriation" (I’m not), you could blazon it as "a cross nowy vert charged with another sable fimbriated or, and thereon a dolphin naiant of the same."


I’m not sure if that would produce the Vert fimbriation.  It seems like it would produce the following (with the cross being nowy instead):

 

http://excoboard.com/forums/18883/user/175909/242439.gif

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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18 May 2007 21:12
 

It would be up to Dave and his artist.  But probably a better way of putting it might be "a cross nowy Vert voided Or surmounted of a cross nowy Sable…" Or something like that.

 
Daniel C. Boyer
 
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19 May 2007 17:10
 

Sandy Turnbull;45015 wrote:

I would guess at:

on a cross nowed Vert another Sable fimbriated Or charged with a dolphin naiant of the last


The problem with this is it results in a tincture violation.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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20 May 2007 00:07
 

is there really a tincture violation in badges? i am inclined to think not…but i may well be wrong…

 
Sandy Turnbull
 
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Sandy Turnbull
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20 May 2007 04:31
 

Daniel C. Boyer;45118 wrote:

The problem with this is it results in a tincture violation.


It wouldn’t be regarded as a violation since the fimbriation is metal.

 

One could also use On a cross nowed Vert voided Or another Sable charged with a dolphin naiant of the second

 
DRShorey
 
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DRShorey
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20 May 2007 13:33
 

I want to thank everyone for participating in this thread. A number of suggestions have been made for the blazon of the badge. In line with the policy of reserving the member’s area for discussions of design assistance(and I thank my fellow board members for thier patience in allowing the bounderies of that policy to be pushed in this discussion) I am going to close this thread. If members would like to continue it in the design section of the Members area, feel free.

Thanks again.

 

Dave Shorey