Baker Arms

 
ESmith
 
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ESmith
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27 May 2007 08:49
 

I’m weighing in on this rather late in the game.  I really like the shield you’ve come up with.  Elegant, unique, traditional, its good.  As for the badge, have you considered dropping the pellet and just using the garb? It would look a little more streamlined and a lot more traditional.  Just a thought, in any case I think you’ve come up with a wonderful design.

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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27 May 2007 11:51
 

ESmith;45451 wrote:

Elegant, unique, traditional, its good.  As for the badge, have you considered dropping the pellet and just using the garb? It would look a little more streamlined and a lot more traditional.


So traditional in fact that it would resemble the badge of the Chester Herald which was taken from the arms of the Earl of Chester. It would also be very similar, other than the band vert, to the ancient crest and related badge of Lord Hungerford. The roundel or pellet keeps the Baker badge from looking too similar or related to, some rather famous historical badges.

 
ESmith
 
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ESmith
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27 May 2007 12:27
 

David Pritchard;45456 wrote:

So traditional in fact that it would resemble the badge of the Chester Herald which was taken from the arms of the Earl of Chester. It would also be very similar, other than the band vert, to the ancient crest and related badge of Lord Hungerford. The roundel or pellet keeps the Baker badge from looking too similar or related to, some rather famous historical badges.


Oh, well there you go…

 
Michael Swanson
 
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Michael Swanson
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31 May 2007 21:32
 

Here are Swiss arms with two bread paddles crossed through a pretzel, with three stars. Since you have chosen a design, this won’t help, but I thought it was interesting.[ATTACH]255[/ATTACH]

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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03 June 2007 13:54
 

Yes, Michael, that’s eerily similar to some my earlier ideas, with the peels in saltire and mullets of 6.

Well, there’s been a little more movement on the achievement….Grandpa gave the go ahead on the badge, and we’re working on the motto, however, I’ve been playing around with the crest some and I have a question regarding the shield.

 

First of all, here’s the new crest I worked up.  Dad’s approved it, but I’m still waiting to hear back from Grandpa on it.

 

 

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/jonishairy/Heraldry/BakerAchievement2-3.jpg

 

Second, here’s my question regarding the shield…The following comment was made over at the HSS and I’d like to know your opinions:
Quote:

As to the estoiles, they are necessarily small, so straight-sided stars would have the same visual effect, and would be very much easier to draw (forget computer graphics; think of the poor artist!). Also, if the internal lines are left out it makes them whiter, which the design needs.


So, in your opinion, would I be better off with mullets of six?

 

As always, feedback, comments, and criticism are greatly appreciated.

 
J Duncan of Sketraw
 
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J Duncan of Sketraw
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03 June 2007 14:08
 

Just make the estoiles bigger then Jonathan. Personally speaking, I think charges should be as large as possible so as to stand out when the escutcheon is smaller. As I said my personal view, at the end of the day you have to go with what you feel happy with.

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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03 June 2007 14:33
 

Well, just for fun I did a version with mullets of 8:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/jonishairy/Heraldry/Mulletsof8.gif

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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03 June 2007 15:02
 

(a) I’d make them bigger yet.

(b) In every European country except England (and maybe Ireland) any figure with points like this, whether wavy or straight, is traditionally a star—even in Scotland (see Nisbet).  I wouldn’t blazon what you’ve got with eight points as mullets—I’d blazon them as stars of eight points.

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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03 June 2007 15:43
Hugh Brady
 
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Hugh Brady
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03 June 2007 16:16
 

I’m late to the game, so feel free to disregard.

Have you tried semy of stars of eight points? It just looks a little odd to me in the previous image.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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03 June 2007 17:55
 

I think the size is right.  You might play around with the shape of the shield to allow distributing the stars a little differently.  Thirteen is an awkward number to deal with.

Would you consider letting the garbs of wheat suffice for "baker" and forgetting about the "baker’s dozen?"  Then semy of stars, as suggested by Hugh, would do well for "stars fell."

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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03 June 2007 18:08
 

Hugh Brady;45777 wrote:

I’m late to the game, so feel free to disregard.

Have you tried semy of stars of eight points? It just looks a little odd to me in the previous image.

 


Hugh, he wants to have exactly 13 stars, so semy wouldn’t work.

 
J Duncan of Sketraw
 
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J Duncan of Sketraw
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03 June 2007 18:13
 

Yes the Stars are a better size, did you try that size with the estoiles to see what that looked like?

 
Trent
 
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Trent
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04 June 2007 11:57
 

JRB,

That demi-bear crest is a keeper.  The best so far.  Such a simple solution.  It’s strange no one here thought of it earlier.

 

Does HSS allow all members to comment on designs?  I know that IAAH doesn’t.  It seems that group participation works very well here.  It’s very helpful for for newbies—we get to learn and contribute.  You’ve gotten input from three associations plus your family.  Talk about collaboration.

 

Are you set on having the mantling doubled Or?  Shouldn’t it be Argent since that would be the first metal mentioned in the blazon?  That goes for the torse as well.

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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22 June 2007 13:26
 

Okay, then.  The family has finally come to a decision on a motto and so I present you with the finalized version of the achievement (sans artistic talent):

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/jonishairy/Heraldry/BakerFinalAchievement.gif

 

Now, I worked with Patrick in the chat room on the blazon and here is what we hammered out.  If you see any errors, please let me know.

 

"Vert, thirteen estoiles wavy Argent, on a chief dovetailed Sable, fimbriated Or, three garbs Gold banded Green. Upon a wreath, a demi-bear Sable, armed, eyed and holding a shepherd’s crook Or. For a motto, ‘Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom’. For a badge, a pellet fimbriated Or charged with a garb of the last banded Vert."

 

The motto is taken from Proverbs 1:7:  "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but fools despise knowledge and discipline."

 

 

Anyway, I think that should cover it.

 

@ Trent:  Yes, the HSS allows discussion on designs under consideration, although I don’t think it is a very common occurrence there as most Scottish arms are matriculations of previously existing arms and any design work is undertaken by the Lyon and his court.  Sorry it took so long to respond to that…I must have missed it.