A New Project

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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17 August 2007 11:48
 

Greetings, Everyone!

Most probably know this already, but I work as a security guard at my university.  Yesterday, I met with my new boss to discuss improvements for the department.  I suggested a specific unit insignia, and mentioned my interest in heraldry.  He really liked the idea, and asked me to come up with a few ideas to bring to him.  I’d like to present a few different designs.  So, I am posting here for some assistance.  Any ideas are welcome.  I will include some information below to help the design process alone.

 

School Colors—Maroon (Sanguine), White, and Navy Blue.

School Team Name—The Flames

School Seal:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/jonishairy/Heraldry/Stuff010.jpg

 

Now, we are not police officers.  We are unarmed security guards, so I would like to steer clear of stereotypical law enforcement insignia.  I will work on some ideas over the next couple of days, and I will post them as I can get them rendered.

 

Heraldry does not feature very prominently on campus.  The quasi-heraldic seal is about the only official heraldry in use.  Hopefully, this might spark an interest on campus.

 
PBlanton
 
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PBlanton
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17 August 2007 16:32
 

JRB,

What a C:cool::cool:L project! I would assume that the school was named after General Robert E. Lee? If so, could I suggest the Lee arms augmented with an escutcheon Argent and a flame Gules (to represent the school team)? So you would have:

 

Arms: Quarterly 1 and 4 Gules, a fesse chequy Or and Azure between ten billets Argent, four in chief, and three, two and one in base, and 2 and 3 Azure a cinqfoil pierced Ermine within a bordure engrailed of the second, overall upon an escutcheon Argent a flame Gules

 

To finish off the patch you could write "Lee University" above and "Security" below in maroon on white.

 

Just a thought. :D

 

Take care,

 
 
Dcgb7f
 
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Dcgb7f
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17 August 2007 17:56
 

Here’s their website. They appear to be very closely affiliated with the Pentecostal denomination, but I didn’t find anything about their choice of name.

www.leeuniversity.edu

 
PBlanton
 
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PBlanton
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17 August 2007 18:06
 

Nice website! :D

Just a thought.

 

Take care,

 
 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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17 August 2007 18:20
 

That’s an interesting one. I might suggest though, that a tincture or two be changed (so that it nods to the Lee arms but doesn’t usurp them).

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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17 August 2007 18:46
 

Unfortunately, I cannot find any information on the Internet about the founding of Lee University or the naming of the university. I suspect that the present Lee University wants to minimise its history because the notorious and discriminatory Bob Jones University shared the same campus with Lee University from 1933 until 1947.

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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17 August 2007 18:58
 

Thanks for the quick responses.

The University was retroactively named for the first president, Flavius Josephus Lee.  While it is possible that he was related to the more famous Lee family of Virginia, I am unaware of any actual connection.

 

Since David is so obviously baiting me (yet again smile )...The only connection with the unfortunate Bob Jones University is that we purchased their campus from them when they relocated to South Carolina.

 

Thanks again for the help thus far.

 
PBlanton
 
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PBlanton
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17 August 2007 21:37
 

Okay, so the school wasn’t named after General Robert E. Lee. I did say that I had assumed this, and we all know what that implies. LOL So onto a different idea. Combining the colors Sanguine, Argent, and Azure along with the Flame mascot, the "Christ-centered liberal arts university" theme and the State of Tennessee, how about:

Arms: Sanguine, upon a cross Argent a flame Gules, and on a quarter Azure three stars Argent

 

Like this:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e221/pblanton/LeeUniversity2.jpg

 

Okay, I’ll quit for a bit.  :D

 

Take care,

 
 
Dcgb7f
 
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Dcgb7f
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17 August 2007 23:34
 

Now, I know that the tourch, book, and olive branches from the above mentioned image are very bland and cliche symbols, but would it not perhaps be good to incorporate in some manner at least one or two of those symbols are charges. The two above proposed designs, though elegant, bear only a superficial allusion to the university’s team name. Like I said, I realize Lee University uses run of the mill emblems, but I would think that it would be easier to get it approved and adopted by the higher-ups if it at least vaguely resembled the school’s seal. Afterall, the campus security is affiliated with the school, and so I would think that from an outside perspective (i.e. a student walking across the campus) seeing the insignia should instantly identify itself as being closely associated with the school. Something that bears little to no resemblance to the school’s book-torch emblem will likely not have the same effect. To me, this isn’t so much a task of designing a heraldically novel insignia from scratch, rather designing a heraldically correct insignia based on a corporate logo. Ultimately it seems that this is a value judgment between a very creative design with limited recognizability with the school and a less creative, partically bland design with substantially more recognizability with the school. Attractive or not, the school has it’s logo and I would think that something that resembles it more stands a greater chance of gaining widespread usuage and acceptance, and in the process, introducing heraldry to the campus goer.

 
Linusboarder
 
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Linusboarder
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18 August 2007 18:11
 

I rather like Phil’s version.

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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19 August 2007 08:14
 

Dcgb7f;48675 wrote:

Now, I know that the tourch, book, and olive branches from the above mentioned image are very bland and cliche symbols, but would it not perhaps be good to incorporate in some manner at least one or two of those symbols are charges. The two above proposed designs, though elegant, bear only a superficial allusion to the university’s team name. Like I said, I realize Lee University uses run of the mill emblems, but I would think that it would be easier to get it approved and adopted by the higher-ups if it at least vaguely resembled the school’s seal. Afterall, the campus security is affiliated with the school, and so I would think that from an outside perspective (i.e. a student walking across the campus) seeing the insignia should instantly identify itself as being closely associated with the school. Something that bears little to no resemblance to the school’s book-torch emblem will likely not have the same effect. To me, this isn’t so much a task of designing a heraldically novel insignia from scratch, rather designing a heraldically correct insignia based on a corporate logo. Ultimately it seems that this is a value judgment between a very creative design with limited recognizability with the school and a less creative, partically bland design with substantially more recognizability with the school. Attractive or not, the school has it’s logo and I would think that something that resembles it more stands a greater chance of gaining widespread usuage and acceptance, and in the process, introducing heraldry to the campus goer.


Interesting thoughts, Daniel. From what I know of Jonathan, however, I’d suspect that he has a hidden heraldic agenda. I’d bet money (were I a betting man) that he hopes that an heraldic insignia for Security will wind up reverse-engineering an heraldic insignia for the school itself, eventually neccessitating a new seal.

 
PBlanton
 
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PBlanton
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19 August 2007 16:17
 

Patrick Williams;48701 wrote:

Interesting thoughts, Daniel. From what I know of Jonathan, however, I’d suspect that he has a hidden heraldic agenda. I’d bet money (were I a betting man) that he hopes that an heraldic insignia for Security will wind up reverse-engineering an heraldic insignia for the school itself, eventually neccessitating a new seal.

I’m glad that I’m not the only one that thinks this way. :D

Seriously, though, the book/torch/wreath symbolism is a bit trite. I’m currently near the end of my MBA at a school that boasts "arms" (or as they call it "a crest" [shudder]) consisting of a wreath of olive branchs, an open book, and a torch. As soon as I come up with some good designs to represent the school and it’s values I plan on contacting them about using proper heraldry. The reason I bring this up is because there are literally hundreds if not thousands of schoolds in the US alone that claim "arms" of wreath/book/torch. I would think the school would want to add some uniqueness to their outward image.

 

Take care,

 
 
Trent
 
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Trent
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20 August 2007 20:07
 

Does he want to invite the associations that a flame on a cross (burning cross) could bring up?

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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20 August 2007 20:51
 

I apologize for not being more responsive in a thread that I started, but I have been extremely busy.  I will make a more substantive post later this evening.

 
Linusboarder
 
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Linusboarder
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21 August 2007 00:03
 

Trent;48769 wrote:

Does he want to invite the associations that a flame on a cross (burning cross) could bring up?

 


Hmm i wouldn’t think that, not with the rendition Phil put forth, but to avoid it even more you could add the base of the torch. I don’t think any reasonable person would associate it that way

 
DJensen
 
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DJensen
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21 August 2007 08:42
 

Quote:

I don’t think any reasonable person would associate it that way.

emphasis mine

I’m not sure that it’s the reasonable people we should worry about.