Badges, we don’t need no stinking…

 
werewolves
 
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werewolves
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22 August 2007 11:16
 

OK, I lied, I do need a badge.  Or at least I’d like one.  I have some ideas, but I’m hoping to get some opinions and ideas from the group.

First a question.  Most of the badges I see are round, or some variation of round.  However, I’ve seen many historic examples that seem to almost be a separate crest ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Badge_of_sir_george_martin.png ).

Is one style more "proper" or "typical"?

 

So, here’s where I’m going: If I have a personal totem in my life it’s (get ready for the shock) a werewolf.  So I’d like my badge to be a werewolf.  My arms

( http://americanheraldry.org/pages/uploads/Armorial/Kane_ahs_l.jpg ) are inherited from my father, so I’d like to incorporate something that brings in my German heritage from my mother’s side.  Most of her side is from Hesse (originally), so I was thinking of taking some inspiration from the Hessen arms ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Coat_of_arms_of_Hesse.svg ).  I’d also like to incorporate a charge from the arms (possibly a lozenge?).

 

So the tricky part is how to clearly represent a werewolf.  There is only one historic example that I found online ( http://www.clankeith.org/fhaoilgeal/dixonheraldry.htm ), sort of a wolf with a human face, but I don’t like that at all.  A couple of thoughts; I once read an old tale of a werewolf terrorizing a town.  They could tell it was a werewolf because it had human hands.  Also, in the pre-Hollywood days, a person generally chose to be a werewolf, often by putting on a "wolf-belt" (belt made from the skin of a wolf).

 

So, my initial thought was something like:

 

A werewolf (a wolf, its fore-paws being the hands of a man and wearing about the waist a belt of wolf skin) rampant barry Argent and Vert langued Azure

 

Now I’m just unsure what to incorporate from my arms/crest.

 

Thoughts?  Other ideas?

 

Thanks in advance,

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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22 August 2007 12:39
 

I suggest that you read this entire older thread regarding badges before you pursue your design: http://americanheraldry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2418

To address one of your questions, I do not believe that badges should be on fields, even though they have been typically depicted upon them over the centuries. This is a misunderstanding of the past two hundred years that badges depicted on roundels actually incorporated the roundel into the badge design. Instead the roundel beneath the badge in Tudor period manuscripts simply shows the livery colours of the original family (which may be different from those of later inheritance) on which that badge was historically worn or flown.

 
werewolves
 
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werewolves
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22 August 2007 13:04
 

David Pritchard;48789 wrote:

I suggest that you read this entire older thread regarding badges before you pursue your design: http://americanheraldry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2418

To address one of your questions, I do not believe that badges should be on fields, even though they have been typically depicted upon them over the centuries. This is a misunderstanding of the past two hundred years that badges depicted on roundels actually incorporated the roundel into the badge design. Instead the roundel beneath the badge in Tudor period manuscripts simply shows the livery colours of the original family (which may be different from those of later inheritance) on which that badge was historically worn or flown.

Thank you for that thread David.  I’m glad that I went with a free-standing charge then.

 
Dcgb7f
 
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Dcgb7f
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22 August 2007 13:22
 

Although I’ve seen roundel style badges, I’ve seen a lot that aren’t. I don’t know if the College of Arms has a restrictions on badges, but from the grants I’ve seen they appear to lean more toward non-roundel badges. In fact, I think I prefer non-roundels since they look nicer. Also, I don’t think a badge even has to incorporate a charge from the shield or crest, although I imagine there is nothing wrong in doing so. The links below show different badges that have been granted. All but the second to last were granted by the COA.

Some recent COA grants with badges:

http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/Grants.htm

Badge based on shield or crest:

http://www.theheraldrysociety.com/resources/colinlee.htm

http://www.siue.edu/~bragen/Patent.gif

Roundel badge:

http://www.theheraldrysociety.com/resources/carlpritchett.htm

Misc badge:

http://www.theheraldrysociety.com/resources/adrianderedman.htm

 
Michael Swanson
 
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Michael Swanson
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22 August 2007 14:14
 

Perhaps this?  wink

[ATTACH]295[/ATTACH]

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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22 August 2007 14:18
 

Sometimes you are just too clever Michael. It would be a great badge for a fish monger though.

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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22 August 2007 14:22
 

Dcgb7f;48791 wrote:

I don’t know if the College of Arms has a restrictions on badges, but from the grants I’ve seen they appear to lean more toward non-roundel badges.


Recently I read that the College of Arms was not going to grant new badges on roundels any longer but rather was going to return to the free standing badges of the Medieval period.

 
werewolves
 
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werewolves
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22 August 2007 14:36
 

David Pritchard;48793 wrote:

Sometimes you are just too clever Michael. It would be a great badge for a fish monger though.

Yes, very nice! rolleyes  Is it weird that that makes me want sushi?

But, I’m convinced free-standing is the way to go.

 
werewolves
 
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werewolves
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23 August 2007 11:25
 

OK, so here is a truly quick and awful rendering using free clipart, but hopefully it gives you a general idea.  What does everyone think?  Does it say "werewolf" to anyone, or do you guys have other suggestions?

Any help is appreciated.

 
Dcgb7f
 
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Dcgb7f
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23 August 2007 11:56
 

To be honest, I’d have to say no, but that’s just me. Really my problem is that when you say werewolf no clear picture pops into my head, and so when I see your badge, my brain doesn’t go "Ahh, werewolf." What does a werewolf look like? It Is it a man that changes competely into a wolf? Is is a thing that kind of sort of looks like a wolf but walks on its hind legs? Or is it a man that changes into some sort of weird looking hybrid with shaggy hair and long fangs and a tail, yet maintains a noticeable human appearance? Maybe if you had a figure that had the trunk and arms of a human and the head, legs and tail of a wolf… I guess sort of like a Satyr, but not. Even this may still not convey the idea of werewolf. But like I say, I might just very unimaginative compared to others.

 
werewolves
 
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werewolves
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23 August 2007 12:16
 

Dcgb7f;48803 wrote:

To be honest, I’d have to say no, but that’s just me. Really my problem is that when you say werewolf no clear picture pops into my head, and so when I see your badge, my brain doesn’t go "Ahh, werewolf." What does a werewolf look like? It Is it a man that changes competely into a wolf? Is is a thing that kind of sort of looks like a wolf but walks on its hind legs? Or is it a man that changes into some sort of weird looking hybrid with shaggy hair and long fangs and a tail, yet maintains a noticeable human appearance? Maybe if you had a figure that had the trunk and arms of a human and the head, legs and tail of a wolf… I guess sort of like a Satyr, but not. Even this may still not convey the idea of werewolf. But like I say, I might just very unimaginative compared to others.

Well, the werewolf as I’m trying to portray it is NOT the Hollywood version (giant wolf/man that stands on it’s hind legs).  I’m shooting for the original German/Eastern European legends where a person would usually put on a "wolf-belt" and become a wolf.  As I was saying above the only real visual cue I’ve read in those old tales is a wolf that still had the hands of a man.

I think I like your idea of a satyr-inspired version.  Maybe a wolf above the waist and a man below.  Sort of mid-transformation I guess.  I suppose I could put the wolf-belt at the join then.  Unfortunately I haven’t found clipart of a man standing sideways.

 
Michael Swanson
 
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23 August 2007 12:52
 

The wolf-belt is German.  The wolf-skin over armor is Scandinavian, and might be more appropriate given your roots. In the latter case, a wolf head erased on a helm (as a crest) might be a possibility.  Or perhaps a man wearing such.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/goth/bow/bow05.htm

 
Dcgb7f
 
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23 August 2007 12:53
 

I actually wasn’t aware of how the old German legends went. I mean there is nothing wrong with using a wolf with human hands badge, it’s just that I’d venture to say that most Americans wouldn’t catch the reference to the old German werewolf legends. Then again, there’s nothing saying you need to tailor your design to fit the ignorance of Americans.

I’ll try to do a sketch and scan it into the computer for you since such a composite may be difficult to do with clip art. I’ll let you know.

 

I also like the wolf’s head idea as a badge and/or crest.

 
David Pritchard
 
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23 August 2007 12:59
 

I have to agree with Daniel. As movie goers, we have seen so many varieties of werewolves that no clear image really exists. What has been consistent over the past one hundred years of film is that a werewolf has a long canine snout with fangs. Maybe a werewolf’s head erased would make a more recognisable badge?

 
werewolves
 
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werewolves
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23 August 2007 16:46
 

Quote:

The wolf-belt is German. The wolf-skin over armor is Scandinavian, and might be more appropriate given your roots.

Actually, I’m half German on my mother’s side, which is part of what I’m trying to represent with my badge, so the German version of a werewolf is what I’m shooting for.


Quote:

I have to agree with Daniel. As movie goers, we have seen so many varieties of werewolves that no clear image really exists. What has been consistent over the past one hundred years of film is that a werewolf has a long canine snout with fangs. Maybe a werewolf’s head erased would make a more recognisable badge?

David, by werewolf head are you thinking something like the attached picture?  If so, that’s unfortunately the opposite of what I want.  I’m attempting to show the old werewolf legends, not the Hollywood version.

 
werewolves
 
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werewolves
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23 August 2007 16:48
 

Thanks for all of the help and great suggestions.  I know it’s an odd and difficult charge to represent.

Here’s another idea, although I’m not sure I like it as much.