Fred White design

 
Wilfred Leblanc
 
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Wilfred Leblanc
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06 September 2007 23:49
 

Dcgb7f;49136 wrote:

That sounds all right, though you’d have to show us the design you are trying to blazon in order for us to definitively say it’s correct or not.


How would I paste an image of the shield in here if I wanted to show you what I think the blazon describes?

 
Linusboarder
 
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Linusboarder
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06 September 2007 23:53
 

fwhite;49317 wrote:

How would I paste an image of the shield in here if I wanted to show you what I think the blazon describes?


I usually upload to imageshack.us and then after you upload they have a code that allows you to link to the uploaded picture.

 
PBlanton
 
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07 September 2007 00:08
 

fwhite wrote:

I actually did draft a coat of arms over a couple of months ago: Argent a fess raguly gules, in chief an escallop between two acorns, in base a cross of Lorraine, all of the second.


Fred, is this what you had in mind?

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e221/pblanton/White.jpg
fwhite wrote:

How would I paste an image of the shield in here if I wanted to show you what I think the blazon describes?


First, you must upload your picture to the internet. As Colin pointed out, you can use imageshack.us or (I like to use) photobucket.com. Then you click on the "insert image" icon (looks like a yellow box with a mountain inside) located at the top of the message reply window and copy and past the URL of the image into the blank provided.  I hope that helps.

 

Take care,

 
 
Wilfred Leblanc
 
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Wilfred Leblanc
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07 September 2007 00:16
 

That is precisely what I had in mind!

 
PBlanton
 
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PBlanton
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07 September 2007 00:26
 

Great! Now if I could just figgure out how to put a thrice fructed sprig of cotton plant in the mouth of a passant greyhound and still make it all look good, I’d draw you up a basic emblazonment. :D

Take care,

 
 
Wilfred Leblanc
 
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Wilfred Leblanc
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07 September 2007 00:31
 

fwhite;49128 wrote:

Crest: a greyhound passant, in its mouth a sprig of the cotton plant thrice fructed, all proper.


This one is probably not quite so simple to assemble with clipart, but I’d be interested to know if it translates as clearly as the shield.

 

"Greyhound passant" is unambiguous. In terms of the cotton, what I mean is a stem/branch between the dog’s teeth with three bolls of cotton blossomed on the end appearing just above/behind the dog’s head. By "proper," I hope that "grey" or "greyish-blue" is understood in the case of the dog, and simply true to nature in the case of the sprig of cotton and its three bolls.

 
Wilfred Leblanc
 
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Wilfred Leblanc
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07 September 2007 00:37
 

That’s very generous of you, Philip. Thank you!

I considered getting rid of the thrice-fructed sprig of cotton, but in tandem with the greyhound, I think it’s what gives the overall achievement some character. A simple greyhound passant seems too generic.

 
James Dempster
 
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07 September 2007 00:55
 

Whilst the arms suggested look fine, I think that the blazon would have to specify the orientation of the escallop and acorns since neither are following the default which is for the escallop to be the other way up (hinge at top) and the acorns to be in pale rather than in bend and with the stalk downwards.

James

 
Wilfred Leblanc
 
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Wilfred Leblanc
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07 September 2007 01:05
 

Well, perhaps "precisely" was not the right word, insofar as my own sketch actually does have the defaults you mention—acorns with caps up but in pale, and escallop with the other end up.

 
David Pritchard
 
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07 September 2007 15:50
 

fwhite;49326 wrote:

"Greyhound passant" is unambiguous. In terms of the cotton, what I mean is a stem/branch between the dog’s teeth with three bolls of cotton blossomed on the end appearing just above/behind the dog’s head. By "proper," I hope that "grey" or "greyish-blue" is understood in the case of the dog, and simply true to nature in the case of the sprig of cotton and its three bolls.


This proposed crest sounds more like an 1820 Staffordshire chimney ornament than a good heraldic design in my opinion. Therefore I shall propose a design with the same content but in a different pose: a greyhound in full course springing over a cotton plant in bloom. This design gives some motion and does not force the greyhound to do the implausible, hold a dried and most uncomfortable cotton sprig in his mouth.

 

If anyone is curious what a springing greyhound looks like in a crest, see Scottish Heraldry by M.D. Dennis, top of page 9, Cochrane crest.

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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07 September 2007 20:14
 

Since you proposed to render the greyhound in your crest in its natural colours, it might be good to share this image of the coat-of-arms of Kenneth Trist Urquhart of Urquhart, 27th Chief of Clan Urquhart, which includes a pair of beautifully coloured greyhound supporters.


<div class=“bbcode_center” >
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9720/urquhartusy0.gif
</div>

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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07 September 2007 20:43
 

fwhite;49128 wrote:

I actually did draft a coat of arms over a couple of months ago: Argent a fess raguly gules, in chief an escallop between two acorns, in base a cross of Lorraine, all of the second.


When I see anything red and raguly, I naturally think that it is a reference to either Burgundy or the Order of the Golden Fleece. Was your French ancestor from Burgundy? While the plain armed Cross of Lorraine is associated with the Province of Lorraine and the French Resistance, it is a relatively recent symbol in its present form, dating back to the loss of the province to Germany following the Franco-Prussian War in 1871. The more historical form of this cross, the 14th century Cross of Anjou-Lorraine, has botany ends.

 
Wilfred Leblanc
 
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Wilfred Leblanc
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07 September 2007 21:10
 

Well, David, I don’t want my crest to look like a weathervane ornament or a fit companion to a lawn jockey, and a greyhound courant with nothing in its mouth sounds pretty good (though running somehow strikes me as potentially redolent of anxiety, vs. purposefully marching). As far as the cotton goes, when I visualize the full achievement, somehow having the crest "read" as cotton growing out of the torse seems odd. But maybe I need to examine more crests where there’s a vegetal motif in use. Could the greyhound be holding the sprig of cotton in its raised paw? Any other opinions on this out there?

My ancestor was from Noyon, which I believe is in Picardy—no connection to Burgundy or the Order of the Golden Fleece. I suppose I thought of red and white as alluding to the Cross of St. George, ergo England and the 13 colonies, where 7/8 of my ancestors lived as subjects of the King of England for generations prior to the Revolution (and those in Quebec, too, actually, after 1763), though some were not from originally English families. The raguly line has personal significance, but perhaps there’s an angle of vision from which it isn’t appropriate.

 
PBlanton
 
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07 September 2007 22:45
 

Fred,

Okay, I changed the acorns to a more palewise position and reversed the escallop. I then added the greyhound and cotton sprig along with a helm, mantling, and torse. After seeing it all together, I kinda like it…cotton and all. :D

 

What do you think?

 

Take care,

 
 
Wilfred Leblanc
 
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Wilfred Leblanc
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08 September 2007 01:03
 

That’s awesome, Philip. I’‘m especially impressed by the bolls of cotton. The way I had them in my drawing, they were kind of turned the other way, so that on the viewer’s side, there’s a little stalk poking out, and continuing on the other side to that the bolls are at about 10 o’clock relative to the dog’s head. But what you’ve done looks splendid.

As I reread James’s post, I realize that he was saying the acorns’ default position is caps down. If that’s so, then I probably should specify "inverted" or something if I want the caps up. But my eye for these things is still kind of half-formed, and if the caps-up position simply reads as "upside down" to anyone who’s in the know, then of course, that’s not what I want to communicate.

 

As far as David’s remark about botony ends on the Cross of Lorraine goes, it might be worth seeing how they would look. What I envisioned is what our fellow enthusiast characterized as the modern version of the cross, but I was unaware that the botony ends are what would have been familiar to 17th c. Frenchmen. Perhaps the ancient version would be more appropriate. The point is simply to allude to my French ancestry without resorting to cliches, but perhaps it would be just as well to use the fleur-de-lis, or if some symbol of Noyon, Picardy (my ancestor’s home town) is appealing, maybe that. Any thoughts? If there is a device symbolizes conversion to Catholicism and Frenchness all at the same time, that would be best of all.

 

Anyway, Philip, it’s very generous of you to help me tinker with this, and I appreciate your approval of the basic design. I’m continually reminded that the generous-heartedness of almost everyone I’ve met through genealogy justifies any belief they might have in the significance of their ancestry, family traditions, etc.

 
Dcgb7f
 
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Dcgb7f
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08 September 2007 01:50
 

This link takes you to a page with an image of a botany version of the Lorraine Cross. From what I understand the two cross bars should be of equal length (which they’re not at the below link), otherwise you get a cross looking like the patriarchial cross. Regarding whether to use a fleur-de-lis or a Lorraine Cross, I’d go with the cross since it’s something one doesn’t often seen on arms making your all the more unique.

http://www.charles-de-gaulle.org/article.php3?id_article=161