My choice remains "a.", but which one do you prefer, Kenneth? We could voice our opinions ad nauseum, but the final decision is yours alone. I recommend printing all of the various choices and posting them on your refrigerator. Leave them up for a couple of weeks, taking them down as you eliminate them one-by-one. The one that remains will be the right one.
Well, my attempt to put together a full achievement has been quite revealing to me. I wanted to see it all together before registering it and, while I am quite resolute and very pleased with my choice of ordinaries and charges, I have decided to reduce the number of metals to one. Seeing everything together for the first time, I realized that I didn’t care that much for the Or. I think I was just used to seeing it on Gules.
I am still trying to decide on the mantling, whether or not to go with the traditional field and metal or to spice it up a bit with the pine cones, but wanted to throw this out with the new shield. I agree that the addition of the pine cones makes it a little busy, but I’m not sure a good artist could really do something with it.
I like your choice to reduce the number of tinctures, and I think the argent instead of Or looks quite nice.
Given that, it looks like either mantling choice would be a good one to me. Because you have simplified the shield, it doesn’t seem like the mantling "distracts" as much if it is a little more complex, IMHO.
I think you could safely pick either one, they look very nice!
Kyle=
I have to agree with Kyle. The argent instead of Or is very nice. To my eye, is seems to make the charges "pop". (this might also be because I had to much coffee).
Personally on the mantling I would still go with (a). Of coarse the choice is yours, and as Kyle also said, both of the above would look nice.
I’ll just echo the majority opinion and state that I like the mantling Vert doubled Argent. Even with the change in tincture (which, by the way, I like very much), I believe that the overall achievement seems a little cluttered with the addition of the pine cones.
When I was working with my father and grandfather to design our arms, I also considered having the mantling semy of estoiles, but felt that it would detract from the shield. Ultimately, though, it is your decision, and I think that since you have narrowed the field to these two choices, an extended refrigerator test should make it very apparent as to which is the best choice.
I, too, agree that the change of tincture for the charges on the chief is an improvement.
As to the pine cones, on my monitor they don’t show up very clearly. They appear as little red ellipses—like rather odd measles. While in a large, well-done emblazonment (or with a better monitor) they may show up fine, at small sizes (e.g. perhaps on a letterhead) the "pine" connection is likely to be lost. For that reason, I’d recommend going with (a).
Excellent call on making the charges on the chief argent, IMO.
As for the pines, while I think it’s a great idea in theory, they seem to me to be distracting rather than complementary to the shield. Of course, it’s not a huge distraction, and if you keep them, it’ll still be very a nice achievement.
Dohrman Byers;53517 wrote:
—like rather odd measles.
Father may have seen the measles but I saw red leaches instead of pine cones. On my own arms the cockles sometimes look like bells rather than shells but is this really so bad? On the other hand looking like an infectious disease or a parasite is not a good misunderstanding. Possibly the pine cones would be more complementary with the overall colour scheme as Vert rather than Gules (after all pine cones do start out as green).
Eliminating the second metal was a very good move.
I think having something Gules to liven up the mantling is potentially nice, but like other commentators, I’m concerned about the pine cones’ legibility. Its very hard to tell what they are in the present mock-up of the full achievement, but another emblazonment might make them easy enough to pick out. Perhaps it’s really only worth questioning if you’re thinking of placing the full achievement on a signet ring, where they would be well nigh impossible to see, I expect.
Kenneth,
I’ve always admired a well-executed emblazonment of arms with a lambrequin semy of something-or-another; however, as has been pointed out, it can also look less than appealing. I personally feel that it is unnecessary to blazon the torse and lambrequin and their design and content should be left to the artist. Following this rationale, an artist might emblazon your arms with lambrequin Vert doubled Argent or Vert doubled Argent semy of pinecones Gules or even Gules doubled Argent.
Additionally, I find it odd to see the interior (metal) of the lambrequin semy of anything and the exterior left plain simply because the only times I’ve ever seen charges applied to one they have been on the exterior.
Take care,
PBlanton;53624 wrote:
Kenneth,
I’ve always admired a well-executed emblazonment of arms with a lambrequin semy of something-or-another; however, as has been pointed out, it can also look less than appealing. I personally feel that it is unnecessary to blazon the torse and lambrequin and their design and content should be left to the artist. Following this rationale, an artist might emblazon your arms with lambrequin Vert doubled Argent or Vert doubled Argent semy of pinecones Gules or even Gules doubled Argent.
Additionally, I find it odd to see the interior (metal) of the lambrequin semy of anything and the exterior left plain simply because the only times I’ve ever seen charges applied to one they have been on the exterior.
Take care,
I agree completely with Phil. In fact, I started trying to write the same thoughts last night, but kept getting my points garbled and gave up—too late in the evening, I guess. But Phil’s put it better than I was going to anyway.
Maybe I’m just in a contrarian mood this afternoon , but I like "b"—green & red lined white—and WITH the three-color wreath.
But as noted by others, its really your call. But if you have sons/brothers/cousins who you intend to also be included in this armorial family, IMO each of them would be free to adopt whichever version of mantling they prefer, as essentially "artistic license." And perhaps for different purposes or settings, you or other individuals might vary the mantling to better fit the occasion.
Only the arms themselves (the design on the shield) and the crest are "fixed"—but even there, they could be varied by others in the family, if they wish, but as a form of cadency rather than merely artistic license.
I want to extend a great big THANK YOU to each and every one of you who have contributed to this discussion and to the discussion about the blazon of my arms and to those who have chimed in regarding my ideas for a badge.
[...Drum roll…] I have decided NOT to blazon the mantling and to blazon the torse simply, "On a wreath of the colors…." That will give sufficient guidance to any heraldic artist and still leave plenty of creative license to do something interesting if she or he wishes.
Now I am this close* to settling on a motto and I can register my arms!
* ||
kmansfield;53667 wrote:
I have decided NOT to blazon the mantling and to blazon the torse simply, "On a wreath of the colors…." That will give sufficient guidance to any heraldic artist and still leave plenty of creative license to do something interesting if she or he wishes.
Wise choice. That’s usually the best way to go.
I agree with Daniel. I also chose not to blazon the position of the estoiles in my arms for the same reason. The number was the significant matter, meaning the placement can be changed so as to best fit the shape of the shield.
