Senate of Virgina and the Virginia Company

 
Marcus K
 
Avatar
 
 
Marcus K
Total Posts:  3368
Joined  06-05-2005
 
 
 
16 March 2008 06:10
 

The arms of the Senate of Virginia which is clearly based on those of the Virginia Company seen below. From http://homeschooling.about.com/library/blvasenseal.htm picture, history and explanation of the arms:

http://z.about.com/d/homeschooling/1/0/E/F/vasenseal.gif

 

"The Seal for the Senate of Virginia was initiated in 1973 by Senator James D. Hagood, President pro tempore. Senator Hagood was concerned with the misuse of the great seal of the Commonwealth and wanted a seal designed for the Senate. Senator J. Harry Michael, Jr., was selected to head the project. The College of Arms in London agreed to undertake the project and designed a seal drawn from the devisal of arms (seal) of the London Company. A general description of the Senate seal follows:

 

On the dexter of the arms is the state bird, a cardinal with wings outspread. On the sinister side of the shield is a dragon, part of the arms of the sovereigns of England. In the shield are four quarters—the arms of France (modern), those of England, those of Scotland, and those of Ireland. To denominate the Senate as a law-making body, on the cross there is superimposed an ivory gavel. Above the shield is a helmet, otherwise referred to as a "helm", with a wreath of dogwood flowers, the state flower, supporting the female figure which represents Queen Elizabeth. There is a scroll on each side of the maiden. The ribbon at the base of the shield contains the motto of the Senate, "Floreat Senatus Virginiae", translated as "May the Senate of Virginia flourish."

 

The Senate seal was accepted by the Senate on January 22, 1981."

 

 

http://www.nwhm.org/images/jamestown/page13image1_large.jpg

Picture from http://www.nwhm.org/

 
Michael Y. Medvedev
 
Avatar
 
 
Michael Y. Medvedev
Total Posts:  844
Joined  18-01-2008
 
 
 
16 March 2008 06:55
 

Thank you, dear Markus, for this very interesting information!!

I wonder meanwhile if the regal crowns in the Senate’s arms do correspond to the eight-arched (and capless?) crowns from the original arms.

 
Marcus K
 
Avatar
 
 
Marcus K
Total Posts:  3368
Joined  06-05-2005
 
 
 
16 March 2008 11:41
 

Thanks Michael! About the Crowns it is hard to see as the picture of the Senate’s arms is rather small.

 
Nick B II
 
Avatar
 
 
Nick B II
Total Posts:  203
Joined  26-11-2007
 
 
 
16 March 2008 13:16
 

Michael Y. Medvedev;55489 wrote:

Thank you, dear Markus, for this very interesting information!!

I wonder meanwhile if the regal crowns in the Senate’s arms do correspond to the eight-arched (and capless?) crowns from the original arms.

It looks like the Senate’s crowns have caps, but are otherwise identical to the company’s.

Nick

 
arriano
 
Avatar
 
 
arriano
Total Posts:  1303
Joined  20-08-2004
 
 
 
17 March 2008 14:21
 

OK, I have to ask: Was Queen Elizabeth usually depicted topless?

 
Joseph McMillan
 
Avatar
 
 
Joseph McMillan
Total Posts:  7658
Joined  08-06-2004
 
 
 
17 March 2008 15:00
 

The demi-virgin crowned symbolizes Elizabeth; it’s not actually supposed to be Elizabeth. I think there are also emblazonments from the colonial period that show her clothed.

See, e.g., the version on the front pages of the Virginia Gazette, http://research.history.org/DigitalLibrary/VirginiaGazette/VGImagePopup.cfm?ID=4109&Res=HI.

 
Daniel C. Boyer
 
Avatar
 
 
Daniel C. Boyer
Total Posts:  1104
Joined  16-03-2005
 
 
 
18 March 2008 13:28
 

Joseph McMillan;55542 wrote:

The demi-virgin crowned symbolizes Elizabeth; it’s not actually supposed to be Elizabeth. I think there are also emblazonments from the colonial period that show her clothed.

See, e.g., the version on the front pages of the Virginia Gazette, http://research.history.org/DigitalLibrary/VirginiaGazette/VGImagePopup.cfm?ID=4109&Res=HI.


I don’t think she is clothed in this (look on the dexter side of her neck and bust; there’s a black shadow on the sinister).  Am I misintepreting?

 
Michael Swanson
 
Avatar
 
 
Michael Swanson
Total Posts:  2462
Joined  26-02-2005
 
 
 
18 March 2008 13:48
 

These may have been posted.

This is from a post by Joe M at the IAAH:


Quote:

Virginia Company (assumed c. 1606):  Argent a cross Gules between four escutcheons, each royally crowned proper, those in the first and fourth quarters quarterly of France and England, that in the second quarter of Scotland, and that in the third quarter of Ireland.  Crest:  From an Eastern crown a demi-maiden, hair disheveled crowned proper.  Supporters:  Two English soldiers.

 

 


[ATTACH]412[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]413[/ATTACH]

 
Michael Swanson
 
Avatar
 
 
Michael Swanson
Total Posts:  2462
Joined  26-02-2005
 
 
 
18 March 2008 19:42
 

The crest of the ancient arms of Virginia are described as the "breast of a virgin naked."

Report of the Virginia State Library

By Virginia State Library

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=K94aAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA8-PA10&lpg=RA8-PA10&dq=“merchants+of+virginia”+arms&source=web&ots=zg34kisIst&sig=RTUNb6biwwHL7uGOj3iDciEMEV4&hl=en#PRA8-PA33,M1

 
Joseph McMillan
 
Avatar
 
 
Joseph McMillan
Total Posts:  7658
Joined  08-06-2004
 
 
 
18 March 2008 20:40
 

What Mike is quoting is not an official blazon of the colonial arms; since the arms were never granted by the College of Arms or adopted by an act of the colonial General Assembly, I doubt that such a thing exists.

It’s Pierre Eugene du Simitiere’s blazon of the crest for use in his rather awful (and rejected) proposed arms for the independent Commonwealth of Virginia:


Quote:

A cross of St. George (as a remnant of the ancient Coat of Arms,

showing the origin of the Virginians to be English) having in the center a sharp pointed knife, in pale, blade argent, handle or, alluding to the name the Indians have given to that state.

In the first quarter, a tobacco plant fleury, proper.

In the second argent two wheat sheafs in saltoir, proper.

In the third argent, a stalk of Indian corn, full ripe, proper.

In the fourth vert, four fasces [fesses] waved argent, alluding to the 4 great rivers of Virginia.


I’m sure he’d seen emblazonments of the colonial arms in which the woman was naked, but that doesn’t mean she had to be (and obviously there are examples extant from the period in which she wasn’t).

 

http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCurrency/CurrencyImages/VA/VA-07-17-75-L2.obv.jpg

 
snelson
 
Avatar
 
 
snelson
Total Posts:  464
Joined  03-06-2005
 
 
 
12 September 2015 19:09
 

I’m sure this image of the Senate’s devisal has been posted here before, but I can’t seem to find it: http://blogs.reinhardt.edu/history/files/2015/06/VAsenatepatent.jpg

 
Joseph McMillan
 
Avatar
 
 
Joseph McMillan
Total Posts:  7658
Joined  08-06-2004
 
 
 
12 September 2015 22:08
 

A fairly contentious project at the time.

In 1974, two years before Queen Elizabeth presented a devisal of arms to the Commonwealth of Virginia itself (consisting of the arms originally designed by Clarenceux Camden for the Virginia Company circa 1619 but never granted), the president pro tempore of the Virginia Senate, James D. Hagood, approached the College of Arms for a devisal for the senate itself.  When Hagood raised the idea, Sen. Ray Garland of Roanoke called the whole thing “completely fatuous and utterly ridiculous” with “no historical validity or purpose except to hold the Senate up to ridicule.”  He had a point.  It may well have been unprecedented in the English-speaking world for a legislative body to have a coat of arms of its own, and given that there was no obvious use for one, it must have been hard to explain to constituents the expenditure of more than $5,000 of the taxpayers’ money on its development.  The fact that Hagood’s proposal was driven in large measure by prudery (he wanted to remove from the Senate’s iconography the “loosely draped Goddess of Virtue” who appeared on the state seal) only added to the ridicule.

 

The project also hit some snags in the design phase.  Sir Conrad Swan, Garter, seems to have been startingly out of touch with 1970s political reality in America, suggesting at one point “a Negro dressed in the clothes of about 1750”—in other words, a slave—as one of the supporters.  After four years of batting proposals back and forth, the Senate finally approved the final design by a 30-7 vote in 1978, than, after receiving the finished letters patent, voted to adopt the arms officially on January 22, 1981.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
Avatar
 
 
Michael F. McCartney
Total Posts:  3535
Joined  24-05-2004
 
 
 
13 September 2015 19:34
 

The College of Arms generally produces beautiful artwork and calligraphy, and some pretty nice designs; but if they are so out of touch as to even suggest a slave as a supporter, one wonders whether they are all that well suited for this sort of American civic commission.