A horrific mess as a design.
I find a bit odd that any Society of Friends (Quaker) school would use arms at all as it would seem to contradict their religious philosophy.
Looks like a bendlet gules charged with a motto between two open books gules with a lamp made as part of the escutcheon. All of which, as stated, is not proper heraldry, but an attempt to mimic without sufficient knowledge of the art.
xanderliptak;65656 wrote:
Looks like a bendlet gules charged with a motto between two open books gules with a lamp made as part of the escutcheon.
I think the lap is meant as a crest, although without the helm or torse that one would expect.
Quote:
All of which, as stated, is not proper heraldry, but an attempt to mimic without sufficient knowledge of the art.
I think the term "sufficient" is superfluous.
xanderliptak;65656 wrote:
Looks like a bendlet gules charged with a motto between two open books gules with a lamp made as part of the escutcheon. All of which, as stated, is not proper heraldry, but an attempt to mimic without sufficient knowledge of the art.
Let’s see.
"Argent a bendlet gules fimbriated Argent (silver grey), charged with the motto "Eluceat Omnibus Lux " Argent (silver grey), between open books in sinister chief and dexter base Gules, and for a crest, without helm or wreath, surmounting the shield, a Lamp of Learning Argent"
I’ve seen a lot worse. (Especially from the US Army’s Institute of Heraldry. There seems to be an attitude that Argent (white) and Argent (silver grey) are only the same when it suits, being at all other times quite different and not violating tincture rules.) It’s real heraldry; it just doesn’t meet our standards.
Doug Welsh;65674 wrote:
Let’s see.
"Argent a bendlet gules fimbriated Argent (silver grey), charged with the motto "Eluceat Omnibus Lux " Argent (silver grey), between open books in sinister chief and dexter base Gules, and for a crest, without helm or wreath, surmounting the shield, a Lamp of Learning Argent"
I’ve seen a lot worse. (Especially from the US Army’s Institute of Heraldry. There seems to be an attitude that Argent (white) and Argent (silver grey) are only the same when it suits, being at all other times quite different and not violating tincture rules.) It’s real heraldry; it just doesn’t meet our standards.
Actually, we’ve all seen a lot worse. The use of two different tones for the same tincture is not good practice, but in this case there’s no reason the "fimbriation" shouldn’t just be considered artistic license. As to the basic design, I don’t see that it’s particularly worse than the arms of Karlsruhe, Germany:
http://www1.karlsruhe.de/Historie/Wappen/wkarlsruhe.gif
or the second and third (circa 1376) quarterings of the arms of Bologna, Italy:
http://www.araldicacivica.it/vecchio sito/Emilia/Comuni bo/bologna.GIF
For that matter, it’s not obvious why an inscription on a book on a shield is OK, but an inscription on a bend on a shield isn’t. That doesn’t make SFS’s arms good, but it suggests to me that they are well above the "terrible" standard.
All that aside, note that this is not the only rendering of the SFS seal available on the Web. Here’s a photograph:
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0aBs2sR1gc3pP/610x.jpg
Here’s another:
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0fRLdPw4vnc3Y/610x.jpg
To me, the inconsistency of including or not including the motto and the variations in tincture are greater heraldic sins than either version in itself. (Gules a bend Or between two open books Argent is actually rather nice.)
David Pritchard;65654 wrote:
I find a bit odd that any Society of Friends (Quaker) school would use arms at all as it would seem to contradict their religious philosophy.
David, I’m not sure which tenet of Quaker philosophy you think this would contravene—pacifism or unpretentiousness—but Hector de St. J. Crevecoeur also considered it anomalous when he found an American Quaker farmer with an ancestral coat of arms hanging in his parlor back in the early 19th century.
This puts you in very good company, but my answer to both of you can be summed up in seven words: Argent on a fess Sable three plates.
http://www.lighthousefriends.com/fenwickpenn.jpg
(Boundary stone between Delaware and Maryland, 1751, with Penn arms on one side and Calvert arms on the other.)
Joseph McMillan;65676 wrote:
For that matter, it’s not obvious why an inscription on a book on a shield is OK, but an inscription on a bend on a shield isn’t.
With books, having some sort of inscription does help one look and identify what specific book is being represented. One could mistake a Bible for Twilight if one’s mind so allowed.
Single words on a shield generally seem fine to myself, though I will admit I would prefer some charge to accompany. The shield is supposed to be a pictorial representation, not an essay assignment. There is room for a motto elsewhere, upon a scroll surrounding the artwork of one’s arms and upon a pennon in battle.
Joseph McMillan;65676 wrote:
A
To me, the inconsistency of including or not including the motto and the variations in tincture are greater heraldic sins than either version in itself. (Gules a bend Or between two open books Argent is actually rather nice.)
The "Bend Or" blazon is probably the intent since all other emblazons are two tinctures.
Michael Swanson;65685 wrote:
The "Bend Or" blazon is probably the intent since all other emblazons are two tinctures.
I have known people that do not believe the colours matter. It may simply be the bend and books that are important to the school, with the colours decided by the artist or whomever the school places in charge of the depiction.
xanderliptak;65684 wrote:
Single words on a shield generally seem fine to myself, though I will admit I would prefer some charge to accompany. The shield is supposed to be a pictorial representation, not an essay assignment.
I don’t disagree with this, as a principle of good design. Of course, SFS has only three words, but they are crowded and hard to read. My point, I guess, is that something can be not-good-design but still be heraldry. (Things can also be good design and not-heraldry, of course.)
As a general comment: in this case, the Obamas had to make a choice between style of education and style of heraldry. There are a number of schools in Washington and vicinity with excellent arms, but I can’t think off-hand of one that accepts girls of the Obama children’s ages. There is Brookewood, in Kensington, MD, about 6 1/2 miles up Connecticut Avenue:
http://www.brookewood.org/images/100_Brookewood_012.jpg
which has wonderful heraldry, but doesn’t exactly cater to the same slice of the ideological spectrum as Sidwell Friends.
Joseph McMillan;65689 wrote:
As a general comment: in this case, the Obamas had to make a choice between style of education and style of heraldry. There are a number of schools in Washington and vicinity with excellent arms, but I can’t think off-hand of one that accepts girls of the Obama children’s ages. There is Brookewood, in Kensington, MD, about 6 1/2 miles up Connecticut Avenue:
http://www.brookewood.org/images/100_Brookewood_012.jpg
which has wonderful heraldry, but doesn’t exactly cater to the same slice of the ideological spectrum as Sidwell Friends.
"The Brookewood Crest: a fess wavy azure on a field argent with three roses gules in chief. The name Brookewood honors the early Maryland family of the Brookes, who first settled along the Patuxent River in Calvert County in the 17th century."
Robert Brooke, Sr. (1602–55) was a colonial Governor of Maryland.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/Brooke_Coat_of_Arms_2.JPG
Joseph McMillan;65676 wrote:
As to the basic design, I don’t see that it’s particularly worse than the arms of Karlsruhe, Germany:
or the second and third (circa 1376) quarterings of the arms of Bologna, Italy:
Don’t forget Rome: