Baltisches Wappenbuch

 
Jochen
 
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Jochen
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18 January 2009 10:28
 

at

http://mdz1.bib-bvb.de/cocoon/baltlex/Band_bsb00000445.html

 

by Carl Arvid Klingspor, Swedish Nobleman and "Riksheraldiker" (literally "Heraldist Of The Realm", but I think "Chief Herald of Sweden" is more appropriate….)

 
Jochen
 
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Jochen
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18 January 2009 10:44
 

For those (like me…) who prefer holding some solid paper in their hands - there is a paperback version available:

http://www.amazon.de/Baltisches-Wappenbuch-Ritterschaften-zugehörigen-Adelsgeschlechten/dp/0543987108/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232293347&sr=8-1

 
Alexander Liptak
 
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Alexander Liptak
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18 January 2009 10:59
 

A paper-what…? tongue laugh

 
Jochen
 
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Jochen
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18 January 2009 11:04
 

xanderliptak;65915 wrote:

A paper-what…? tongue laugh


"-back".

 

Like "paperback"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paperback :wink:

 
Alexander Liptak
 
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Alexander Liptak
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18 January 2009 11:32
 

Oh, wow, that’s a ‘buk,’ I believe it is called.  They still make those, aww grin

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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18 January 2009 11:34
 

Thank you for posting the link to the Baltisches Wappenbuch. It struck me as a strange reminder of what once was. In the Baltics one is more likely to see the listed noble surnames on tombstones rather than being used by the current citizenry. The terms of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty allowed for ethnic Germans to return to Germany (which most did) and receive compensation from the Soviet Union for their confiscated properties. As such the Baltic German nobility relinquished their rights to future Estonian and Latvian citizenship and the restitution of their real property. See the pertinent section of the treaty below:

Confidential Protocol

 

The Government of the U.S.S.R. shall place no obstacles in the way of Reich nationals and other persons of German descent residing in the territories under its jurisdiction, if they desire to migrate to Germany or to the territories under German jurisdiction. It agrees that such removals shall be carried out by agents of the Government of the Reich in cooperation with the competent local authorities and that the property rights of the emigrants shall be protected.

 

A corresponding obligation is assumed by the Government of the German Reich in respect to the persons of Ukrainian or Belorussian descent residing in the territories under its jurisdiction.

 

Moscow, September 28, 1939

 

For the Government of the German Reich:                                  By authority of the Government of the U.S.S.R.:

J. Ribbentrop                                                         V. Molotov

 

In modern day Estonia and Latvia, the only nobles one is likely to encounter are Russian nobles who survived World War II and the Soviet deportations and Swedish nobles who were evacuated to Sweden by the Swedish Navy during the war and have returned since 1991 to claim their familial estates.

 
George Lucki
 
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George Lucki
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18 January 2009 13:28
 

... and a number of Poles. smile

 
jcb1
 
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jcb1
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19 January 2009 13:37
 

Jochen;65909 wrote:

... Carl Arvid Klingspor, Swedish Nobleman and "Riksheraldiker" (literally "Heraldist Of The Realm", but I think "Chief Herald of Sweden" is more appropriate….)

I think "Heraldist" is a better translation than "Herald". Like the present "Statsheraldiker" the Swedish "Riksheraldiker" didn’t have any ceremonial obligations at all. Instead there was a "Rikshärold" ("Herald of the Realm") from 1748 to 1974 who officiated at the opening of the Parliament and other occasions. He had on the other hand no heraldic assignments.

The present Swedish "Statsheraldiker" is often mentioned as "State Herald", but I think it would be more appropriate to use "State Heraldist".

 
Jochen
 
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Jochen
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19 January 2009 13:43
 

Yessss, but his position (apart from the issue "personal arms", which the Statsheraldiker does not grant) is not that far away from that of the Chief Herald of Ireland (of course, unless I’m mistaken….:wink:)

 
Frank Martinoff
 
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Frank Martinoff
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26 December 2009 02:08
 

"and received compensation from the Soviet Union for their confiscated properties."

 

David,

you might want to slightly correct this!

"they were forced to sign off on their property"

wink

This link "should" work!

http://www.forost.ungarisches-institut.de/pdf/19410110-1.pdf

 

I know…I know..moving off-topic!

My Great Grandfather didn’t sign but gave them the finger!