Cadillac

 
Frank Martinoff
 
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Frank Martinoff
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25 October 2009 17:41
Alexander Liptak
 
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Alexander Liptak
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26 October 2009 01:41
 

The Cadillac logo steals the arms of Antoine Laumet de La Mothe, sieur de Cadillac, the man that founded Detroit.  Some of you may recall a coronet was used, and less so that there were martlets found on the arms.  Really, though, by the 1990’s the martlets looked like staples with one point up and the other down due to modernization, so it would have been easy to miss them.

The martlets and coronet were dropped in 1999 during the Art and Science rebranding of the company, who were looked at as old and tiresome by that time; Lincoln had remodeled it’s TownCar and introduced the Navigator by that same period, while Cadillac still relied on the basic designs that were created back in the 1970’s.  So, Cadillac launched a slightly new coat of arms logo, new car and those commercials featuring Led Zeppelin.  Nothing says modernity like a coat of arms and Led Zeppelin.  It’s been a long time since I rock and rolled, indeed.

 

http://home.iag.net/~middlebr/herald.jpg

 

*Oh, I forgot to mention, that La Mothe himself assumed those arms based on other noble families that shared his name; whether intentionally to forge a noble line or because of a mistaken belief of relation, I do not know.

 
James Dempster
 
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James Dempster
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26 October 2009 03:22
 

Interestingly Todd’s "Armory & Lineages of Canada" has completely different arms for the Sieur de Cadillac.

http://americanheraldry.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=29&pictureid=244

 

I have no idea whether the above or the arms on which the corporate logo is based are correct. Does anyone know?

 

James

 
dr.h.roth
 
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dr.h.roth
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26 October 2009 04:56
 

Here a very interesting article about Cadillac, the car, de la Mothe, sieur de Cadillac and the heraldry involved:

 

http://www.car-nection.com/yann/Dbas_txt/COATARMS.HTM

 
Alexander Liptak
 
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Alexander Liptak
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26 October 2009 05:55
 

Of the name, he was born simply Antoine Laumet, but later took the name Antoine de La Mothe, sieur de Cadillac likely based on Sylvestre d’Esparbes de Lussan de Gout, The Baron of Lamothe-Bardigues, Lord of Cadillac.  He mistakenly took de La Mothe instead of Lamothe, and signed as sieur instead of Lord, a new name and innocent enough title that was well within the confines of law and custom, despite being misleading.

Here is an image I could find of the Baron’s arms.  If he did use the gold and black version, it would be an acceptable difference if he believed himself related.  Or, maybe he purposely modeled them so closely for, again, the appearance of higher rank.

 

http://www.car-nection.com/yann/Dbas_emb/Coatarm0.JPG

 

But La Mothe apparently had no arms from birth.  So if Mr. Dempster’s version is the correct one, he stole four arms or assumed quarters for the appearance of a lofty birth.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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26 October 2009 07:00
 

xanderliptak;72860 wrote:

He mistakenly took de La Mothe instead of Lamothe, and signed as sieur instead of Lord, a new name and innocent enough title that was well within the confines of law and custom, despite being misleading.


I’m not sure whether, in 17th century France, spelling was standardized enough to differentiate between La Mothe and Lamothe, but a Frenchman who signed his name "Lord" of anything would have been sure to attract some confused attention.  Sieur is one of two French noble titles (another being seigneur) that is typically translated as "lord."

 

And while it may well be true that Frenchmen of Antoine’s class arrogated dubious titles to themselves, I’d need some convincing before accepting that doing so was "well within the confines of law."

 
Alexander Liptak
 
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Alexander Liptak
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26 October 2009 08:51
 

From how it was written, I take it Lamothe was pretty much set as the spelling of the family name.  Otherwise, yes, I wouldn’t think it’d be much difference.

I thought sieur was either used as a courtesy or out of respect, but as a pet form of Seigneur and thus had no legal restrictions.

 
Nick B II
 
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Nick B II
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26 October 2009 11:55
 

There’s no question that Cadillac was ambitious. He went so far as to request the title Marquis de Detroit.

IIRC the title sieur was technically his. It signified that he owned land. He was definitely not sieur de Cadillac, tho.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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26 October 2009 12:33
 

xanderliptak;72865 wrote:

From how it was written, I take it Lamothe was pretty much set as the spelling of the family name. Otherwise, yes, I wouldn’t think it’d be much difference.

I thought sieur was either used as a courtesy or out of respect, but as a pet form of Seigneur and thus had no legal restrictions.


You may very well be right.  I thought I knew what I was talking about, but I’m finding conflicting opinions among French experts on such things.  Some say that a seigneur was a landowner with jurisdictional and other feudal rights and a sieur was just a landowner, but others say that seigneurs were routinely addressed as sieur and still others that any landlord was a seigneur regardless of jurisdiction.

 

And all say that neither had anything to do with nobility as such—a commoner could buy a particular piece of land with feudal rights attached and legitimately style himself seigneur.

 

Crawling back into my cave now.

 
Alexander Liptak
 
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Alexander Liptak
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26 October 2009 14:53
 

It is like that Prinz von Anhalt guy, that renamed himself with a title, and now everyone confuses if he has it or not.  He avoids clarifying, as he clearly enjoys the speculation that he might be of a princely house, and because he is not a Prince of Anhalt there is no information on him which causes people to be unsure and question themselves.  No Royal House keeps 6.5 billion records as to whom is not a member of the House.  This guy Cadillac seemed to do the same.

It is odd because while he adopted the name in the Americas where the Court of the King had little oversight, he still became a Royal Governor, which you think would cause someone from the court to look up his titles upon his receipt of governorship.  Then again, he was imprisoned when he made way his way back to France and upon release was given a knighthood; I did not find a reason for his imprisonment, and it seems odd to jail someone five months and then knight them after.

 

 

 

http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2008-02/car-logo-buick-shield.gif

 

While we are on cars, does anyone have an 1851 edition of Burke’s?  As the story goes, the Buick logos have been based upon the arms of Buik, which is specifically said in the story to be in the 1851 edition and none after.  In time, three shields were used, one for each of the three car models.  As you can see, the shield was much simplified to include only the bend, which happened about the same time Cadillac lost much of it’s heraldic detail.

 

 

 

And the Monte Carlo from Chevrolet has it’s own arms.  This is the old version, with the newer version looking like a red shield with a white inescutcheon charged with a red T that is not so much in chief as it is bumped up so the top is butted up against the top of the shield itself.

 

http://media.motortopia.com/files/5346/album_monte_carlo_pride/464bb0c0e966f/tn_368x368_MMCC_logoJPG_Thumbnail1.jpg

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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26 October 2009 15:53
 

Well, what does seem to be clear from reviewing the archives of rec.heraldry is that, while there were stiff penalties during this period for using an unauthorized title of nobility, this didn’t apply to sieur or seigneur because neither were titles of nobility.  Styling oneself ecuyer or chevalier constituted a claim to being noble, which had legal implications (including notably tax advantages) and was thus a fraud upon the state, but styling oneself seigneur or sieur was at most a claim to land ownership but could just as easily be a general claim to social respectability and would have been understood as such.

So it would seem that "Cadillac"‘s calling himself sieur/seigneur was, as you suggested originally, not uncommon or illegal, but also not particularly uppity either.

 
Nick B II
 
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Nick B II
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27 October 2009 00:25
 

As for Cadillac’s jail term, I assume it was due to corruption or court politics.

Although it could simply be he disobeyed the King—apparently his first stop after Detroit was supposed to be Louisiana but he went to France.

 

I would assume he fell out of favor for disobeying the King, The King decided to stop ignoring Cadillac’s corruption, but the Siuer de La Mothe weaseled his way back into the King’s good graces a few months later.

 

Similar things happen today in regimes centered around one guy today.

 

Nick

 
Nick B II
 
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Nick B II
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27 October 2009 02:05
 

I was wrong. Apparently he stopped in Spain on his way back to France, and was suspected of something illegal. Five months later no evidence had appeared so he was freed, knighted, and received back-pay:

http://www.car-nection.com/yann/Dbas_txt/COATARMS.HTM

He was very good at being just slimy enough to get rich, but not so slimy he got in trouble. His wife was a "privateer’s" niece, and he was notorious for things like alcohol smuggling, trading illegally, arresting people who dared disagree with him, etc. When two of these finally took him to Court he managed to stall for three years before his patron died and he was forced to settle:

http://www.uwgb.edu/wisfrench/family/history/ldurand2.htm

His promotion to the Governorship of Louisiana was a transparent effort to end the scandal in Quebec by removing the guy who caused it.

 

As for his name Cadillac was assumed, and de Lamothe was "borrowed" from a local nobleman. While he was in New France he claimed to be a nobleman himself. The arms were also assumed, and the first and fourth quarters are clearly derived from the de Lamothe arms.

 

So I wouldn’t be surprised to find out he had done something nasty in Spain and just dodged the charge.

 

Nick