Jester(fool),Hourglass,Spider and Manticore

 
Vires Per Ego
 
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Vires Per Ego
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24 January 2010 19:44
 

Would any or all of these be considered valid charges if emblazoned in a heraldic style? Don`t worry I promise not to use them in the same coat of arms. :p

I`ve seen clip art of an hourglass but not the others. Is there some rule against using mythical beasts other than the dragon,gwynneth(sp?),griffon or unicorn?

 

I`ve been messing around with the jester(fool)—either a head with hat or the baton which terminates in the fool`s head effigy.Humor and laughter have always been a hallmark of my personality.If emblazoned tastefully and simply…opinions?

 

Spiders and spiderwebs?Don`t believe I`ve ever seen them used in heraldry(at least not european).

 

Manticore?  :wookie: Can`t think of a legitimate reason other than I think the period illustrtions of it is cool.Ix-NAY on the anticore-MAY then.

 

Thanks in advance!

VPE

(Hos)

 
kimon
 
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kimon
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24 January 2010 19:59
Alexander Liptak
 
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Alexander Liptak
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24 January 2010 23:00
 

All of these would be fine, yes.  Heralds, knights and priests have been used as charges, as well as a wide variety of other men dressed in the garb of their professions, so a court fool would be fine in that same manner.

Anything from the natural world could potentially be used as a charge.  I would caution against a spider’s web, though, because it would not necessarily show well.  Also, if you were using a spider on a web, then the tincture guidelines would be hard to follow.

 

A manticore is fine as a charge, and a large number of mythical beasts were used in heraldry besides the griffin or dragon.  After all, they were in their day thought to be as real as anything like the strange elephant or rhinoceros.

 
davidappleton
 
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davidappleton
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25 January 2010 09:58
 

xanderliptak;74563 wrote:

Anything from the natural world could potentially be used as a charge.  I would caution against a spider’s web, though, because it would not necessarily show well.  Also, if you were using a spider on a web, then the tincture guidelines would be hard to follow.


As I recall (I’m away from my books as I write this), Guillim’s A Display of Heraldrie (4th ed., 1660) gives one or two examples of a spiderweb in a coat of arms.

 

David

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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25 January 2010 12:05
 

i’ve seen a spiderweb too…i just can’t remember where. sorry.

 
Dale Challener Roe
 
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Dale Challener Roe
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25 January 2010 14:45
 

William,

When I was designing my arms I spent a good amount of time looking through the creatures (real, semi-real, mythological, and purely made-up) that litter the heraldic tradition.  And while I’m far from claiming to be an expert, I think I can safely say that the Manticore is one of the tamer entries in the Heraldic Bestiary.

 

I forget who on this board recommended it, but someone suggested I pick up a copy of "The Heraldic Art Source Book" by Peter Spurrier.  Though the book spends time with some of the more basic elements of heraldry, about half of the book is devoted to various animals, real and imagined, with not only history of their usage but also several good artistic examples.

 
Ronny Andersen
 
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Ronny Andersen
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25 January 2010 14:58
 

There was a spiderweb in the arms of the former municipality of Aasiaat in Greenland: http://www.aasiaat.gl/images/Blaalogo.jpg

/Ronny

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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26 January 2010 01:52
 

AWESOME! thanks Ronny.

 
liongam
 
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liongam
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26 January 2010 06:09
 

William,

A spider’s web also appears in the arms of the English family of King of Highgate:

 

‘Argent a spider’s web sable over all a chevron gules charged with four daggers erect proper pommelled and hilted or’

 

John

 
Michael Y. Medvedev
 
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Michael Y. Medvedev
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26 January 2010 08:17
 

Dear V.P.E.,

A nice medieval grant to a Hapsburg court jester, with his own head used as a charge, is preserved in the Imperial Public Library (now National Library of Russia), St Pete.

A Victorian architect, Sir Aston Webb, had a lovely canting coat of arms with a spider:

http://www.precision-guesswork.com/St-Bartholomew-Great/images/webb-arms-crop.jpg

An old Russian noble family - Rykov - enjoys yet another coat with a webmaking spider, who appear to be an equal to wyverns (see here).

Manticores are really fine and undeservingly rare. A manticore may be borne either with, or instead of a hourglass (as hourglasses show that time goes and everything is mortal; but a manticore may serve as even a more impressive symbol of universal mortality wink ). Medieval bestiaries often award manticores with caps or hats, to stress their heads’ human-face-like appearance; maybe you would try a fool’s hood (with donkey’s ears) instead?

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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26 January 2010 11:06
 

another awesome one Michael! this may be becoming my favorite charge for the moment. wink

 
Vires Per Ego
 
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Vires Per Ego
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27 January 2010 18:16
 

Everyone,thank you so much for the excellent and informative replies! The truly great thing about this site is you can "pick" the brains of the learned membership and are all more than happy to help us newbies!

You guys are great! Ye Olde Great Ones!

 

VPE

 

 

(LOVE! that spider!)

 
Michael Y. Medvedev
 
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Michael Y. Medvedev
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28 January 2010 03:52
 

Dear Hos, you are welcome (into our web smile )

As to the fools… A jester was often seen as insanity incarnated. Now a clynical madman, now a sublimely clever master of comedy, now both, a jester was often identified with his mask. A number of jokes was based on the analogy "jester=idiot", as in this telling case.

A buffoon as a symbol of stupidity/madness, and thus of atheism, sometimes appears in medieval illustrations to the Psalm 52/53 [Dixit insipiens in corde suo: Non est Deus] - but of course this allusion is only one of many and must not spoil the image as such.

The following has nothing to do with fools as jesters, but the fools as idiots are also borne in arms. The stupid opnes (Germanice, Buben - that is, "childishly foolish") appear in the canting arms of the Spechts von Bubenheim and the Bubenhofens, illustrated in the great gem of German emblazonry, the Scheiblersches Wappenbuch.

 
Vires Per Ego
 
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Vires Per Ego
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31 January 2010 01:25
 

I always learn something from your posts and threads,Sir Micheal the Learned. smile

Those links were great! Thanks for your input.

 

VPE

 
lucduerloo
 
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lucduerloo
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31 January 2010 07:56
 

In the Habsburg Netherlands, the Archdukes Albert and Isabella ennobled one of their dwarfs, Antoine Payen, on July 3rd 1614. The arms recalled two of his valliant deeds: killing a rat in the presence of the Infanta Isabella (in the course of which action Payen was bitten in the throat by the rat) and knifing a boar during a hunt. The arms moreover have something like an "order of the rat" that is very akin the Order of the Golden Fleece.

 
Vires Per Ego
 
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Vires Per Ego
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31 January 2010 08:03
 

Truth is stranger than fiction(or so tis said). That is a great tidbit of history,lucduerloo.Thanks for sharing.

I know in many ancient cultures that dwarves were venerated,right? Were they regarded the same as a standard sized jester/fool would be?Were midgets and dwarves rare in the feudal european world,I wonder?