Difference Between a Badge and an Arms

 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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22 February 2010 07:43
 

What is the exact difference between an Arms and a Badge.  I bring this up because I was skimming through the United States Heraldic Registry, and looked and Kenneths coat of arms.  While looking at the blazons, I realized he has a blazon for an arms, a crest, a motto, and a badge…which led me to wonder what exactly a badge is.  Sorry for the newbie question wink.  I tried looking it up on google and basically just got a bunch of garbage from bucket sites.

Regards,

Josh

 
eploy
 
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eploy
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22 February 2010 08:55
 

To have valid arms, the design must appear on a shield or at least a cartouche.  You don’t need a shield to have a valid badge.

Arms represent an armiger.  That armiger may use a badge to signify his/her property or retainers.

 

A badge is not technically part of the arms, but I have seen badges that use elements or complete charges from arms.

 
Benjamin Thornton
 
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22 February 2010 10:17
 

Josh, I’ve been meaning to compliment you on the newest version of your arms.  The sable version was nice to, but the simplicity of one colour, one metal is hard to beat.  The maple leaves suggest Canada (I’d love to know the rationale behind your arms), and in that regard, the Public Register of the Canadian Heraldic Authority have plenty of beautiful examples of badges.  See this link.  It’s a list of grants to individuals with badges.

In the Canadian tradition, badges are usually less formal and less complicated than arms, and can be used in place of them to mark property, stationery, or whatever.  This differs from the older British and Scottish traditions where nobility and/or wealthy landowners would use badges to identify their servants, retainers, and property, without using their arms, and therefore eliminating the potential problem of mistaking someone who worked for the armiger for the armiger himself.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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22 February 2010 11:11
 

Having a badge is also not necessary…a lot of people seem to think that the job of assuming arms isn’t finished until you have a shield, crest, motto, badge, standard, etc, etc.

 
Michael Y. Medvedev
 
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Michael Y. Medvedev
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22 February 2010 12:44
 

Dear Joseph, but is it that neccessary to have arms?

OK, I understand what you mean and essentially I do agree. When a client cannot select anything for his crest, normally I rather carelessly suggest a shield without the Ueberwappen. Baldness may make a decent coiffure and   even gorgeous if sported by [Rev] O’Connor or Ms Portman… but in any case it implies a kind of omission, an uncompletedness, does not it?

As to a badge as such, there is no particular need to invent one, even if an armiger does want to have one. IMHO a Britain-oriented armiger usually may use his crest in this capacity.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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22 February 2010 12:56
 

Michael Y. Medvedev;75170 wrote:

Dear Joseph, but is it that neccessary to have arms?


No. I firmly believe we need fewer but better armigers.(1)


Quote:

OK, I understand what you mean and essentially I do agree. When a client cannot select anything for his crest, normally I rather carelessly suggest a shield without the Ueberwappen. Baldness may make a decent coiffure and even gorgeous if sported by [Rev] O’Connor or Ms Portman… but in any case it implies a kind of omission, an uncompletedness, does not it?


I think the quest for a crest (or not) is essentially culture-driven. In Germany, heraldic writers insist that arms are not complete without a crest, but old French and Spanish heraldic rules/laws stipulated that non-noble arms were not permitted to have crests. Different countries, different customs, mustn’t be prejudiced.(2)


Quote:

As to a badge as such, there is no particular need to invent one,


Because, after all, we don’t need no stinkin’ badges.(3)


Quote:

IMHO a Britain-oriented armiger usually may use his crest in this capacity.


I agree completely, although it seems the College of Arms and Lyon Court don’t necessarily agree. The presence of the crest along with other badges on the fields of medieval standards (and the fact that crests seem to have been referred to as "bagges" in some old heraldic texts) suggests that the two were viewed in the Middle Ages as closely related at a minimum.

 

Sorry, no cinematic quote comes to mind on this point.

 

 

___________________

(1) Paraphrased from Ernst Lubitsch’s "Ninotchka," in which Greta Garbo as a Soviet commissar praises the recent (1930s) purges: "There are going to be fewer but better Russians." No offense, Michael.

 

(2) Sgt Daniel Dravott, "The Man Who Would Be King"

 

(3) "Treasure of the Sierra Madre." Also "Blazing Saddles."

 
arriano
 
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22 February 2010 13:12
 

Joshua

The book "The Handbook to English Heraldry" by Boutell, Fox-Davies and Utting has a chapter on badges beginning on page 220:

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=_xdMAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+Handbook+to+English+Heraldry&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 

As the title states, its focus is on English heraldry but I think it provides good info about the origin and use of badges.

 
Michael Y. Medvedev
 
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22 February 2010 13:31
 

Dear Joseph, "Ninochka" is very funny and, despite of the horrid background of the aphorism, it is a pretty much a bon mot and its heraldic transformation is just excellent.

 
Peter Harling
 
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22 February 2010 16:09
 

Also Joshua, a point that no one has yet mentioned, is that you can’t have a badge unless you have a coat of arms! That is of course only if you wish to apply to the College of Arms for a grant of a badge.

Regards ................  Peter

 
kimon
 
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22 February 2010 16:50
 

Peter Harling;75174 wrote:

Also Joshua, a point that no one has yet mentioned, is that you can’t have a badge unless you have a coat of arms! That is of course only if you wish to apply to the College of Arms for a grant of a badge.

Regards ................  Peter

Or, as an American, he can just assume one smile

 
J. Stolarz
 
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23 February 2010 19:54
 

So, I’ve gathered that one can have an arms…and arms as well as a badge, or simply a badge.  But if one already has an arms, one would think the badge would have a similar theme to the arms itself, correct?  It sounds to me like the badge is simply like, heraldic shorthand for the arms itself…or can be I should say.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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23 February 2010 20:46
 

AILD;75214 wrote:

So, I’ve gathered that one can have an arms…and arms as well as a badge, or simply a badge. But if one already has an arms, one would think the badge would have a similar theme to the arms itself, correct? It sounds to me like the badge is simply like, heraldic shorthand for the arms itself…or can be I should say.


That is probably the case more often than not with modern badges, but the badge need not (and historically usually did not) have much to do with the arms.

 

English royal badges illustrate the point quite well.  The English royal arms (quartered in the modern UK royal arms) are Gules with three gold leopards (i.e., lions passant guardant).  But the badges of the various monarchs have included:

 

A sprig of broom plant, used by the Plantagenets

A tree stump sprouting leaves (Edward III)

The sun breaking through clouds (Edward III)

A white hart (stag) couchant with gold collar and chain (Richard II)

A sun (Richard II and Edward IV)

An antelope with a gold collar and chain (Henry IV)

A red rose (Henry IV)

A white swan with gold collar and chain (Henry IV, from his wife’s family)

A blazing beacon (Henry V)

Crossed plumes (Henry VI)

A silver falcon within a golden fetterlock (Edward IV, originally from his grandfather Edmund of Langley)

A white rose on a golden sun (Edward IV)

A white boar with golden bristles (Richard III)

A red rose surmounted by a white one (originally Henry VII, still in use)

A gold portcullis (also originally Henry VII, still in use especially in connection with Parliament)

A white greyhound with gold collar and chain (also Henry VII)

A crowned eagle standing on a tree trunk and holding a scepter (Elizabeth I)

An oak tree (Charles II)

 

...and many others, none having any heraldic relationship with the English royal arms.

 
J. Stolarz
 
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23 February 2010 20:50
 

Alright, I think I’ve gotten a hold on this whole "badge" thing wink.  I take it from your other post Joseph, that you aren’t a fan of badges?

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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24 February 2010 11:00
 

AILD;75219 wrote:

I take it from your other post Joseph, that you aren’t a fan of badges?


But he’s got a nice one. wink

 
 
Joseph McMillan
 
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24 February 2010 15:50
 

I’m not particularly anti-badge.  I just think some folks get the idea that until you have a badge or three, you don’t quite have the complete set of armorial accoutrements.

(Thanks for the kind words on my badge, but I practically never use it for anything and certainly have never registered it anywhere, so it might as well be called a logo.

 

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/McMbadge-sml.gif

 
J. Stolarz
 
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24 February 2010 19:16
 

Pretty cool though I have to say.  I appreciate the help in understanding the badges though, so thank you everybody smile.