Great post Sir and congrats on 5,000.
Guy Power;80787 wrote:
Joe ... will these blazons make your "Presidents of the United States" armorial list ????????
—Guy
Edit: Hmmmmmmm ..... Rodway’s "Taft" emblazon is so similar to the Davenport Arms—but replacing the cross-crosslet with cross-formee. Then again .... he tried to prove Shakespere and John Harvard had a common ancestor:
If it is indeed a coat of arms that President Taft could have used, it will be a great find. However, we should be careful of this. People in the early 20th century were just as susceptible to bucket shops as they are now. There’s a good chance the author simply looked in a copy of one of the Burke peerage books and pulled a coat of arms for a similar name.
Guy Power;80787 wrote:
Joe ... will these blazons make your "Presidents of the United States" armorial list ????????
—Guy
Edit: Hmmmmmmm ..... Rodway’s "Taft" emblazon is so similar to the Davenport Arms—but replacing the cross-crosslet with cross-formee. Then again .... he tried to prove Shakespere and John Harvard had a common ancestor:
Well, since no one named Sherman has ever been President of the United States, not that one. It already appears with oak vice holly leaves in the Signers Roll as the arms of Roger Sherman. William Tecumseh Sherman was from the same family.
The Taft arms are apparently along the line of bucket shoppery. I’ve never found evidence that WHT or any of his kin ever used arms, or that they were entitled to. In response to an inquiry that one of our members made to the Taft Library a couple of years ago, the curators said that the family never used arms.
As for entitlement to ancestral arms, President Taft’s earliest known American ancestor was named Robert Taffe (making nonsense of the purported etymology of the name as given by Rodway). He appears in Braintree, Mass., in 1667. But apparently nothing is known of his origins in England. Thus any attribution to him of arms discovered in an English source under the name of Taft, Toft, or anything else is bogus.
Charles Glass;80695 wrote:
I suggest that we set up a section on the home page under the Heraldry in the USA section with this list.
A superb idea to have an "American Heraldic Treasures" section, maybe even with map links in case members want to visit.
I believe these are America’s heraldic treasures too:
http://www.jfklibrary.org/Search.aspx?nav=Ntk:SearchAll|coat+of+arms|1|,N:16
http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/Archives/JFKSG-MO-1963-2450-2.aspx
http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/Archives/JFKSG-MO-1963-1207b.aspx
http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/Archives/JFKSG-MO-1963-1189.aspx
The calligraphy & artwork on these documents is quite beautiful, though Irish rather than American other than by gift.
The middle one of the three links Mitya posted included the following description:
============
Description: Illuminated certificate in Gaelic, in black ink conferring the Honorary Freedom of the City of Limerick on John F. Kennedy. The seal of the city of Limerick is at painted in the upper left and the Kennedy coat of arms at upper right. The Certificate is signed by Mayor Frances Condell. A red wax seal is at the bottom right. "Freedom of the City" is a ceremonial award, given by a local government to those who have served in some exceptional capacity, or upon any whom the City wishes to bestow an honour.
Historical Note: This award was presented to President John F. Kennedy by Frances Condell, Mayor of Limerick during the President’s state visit to Ireland in June 1963.
Gifter: Frances Condell, Mayor of Limerick, Ireland
(snip)
Archival Creator: National Archives and Records Administration. Office of Presidential Libraries. John F. Kennedy Library (04/01/1985- )
Copyright Status: Donated to the United States
======================
The "Kennedy coat of arms" illuminated on the otherwise quite excellent document, are the traditional Kennedy "sept" arms (Sable three helmets Argent; crest: an arm in armor brandishing a cutlass or scimitar—some sort of curved sword)—NOT the arms granted by CHI to JFK. I haven’t compared the dates to see whether this Honorary Freeman cert. pre- or post-dates the CHI grant.
All the Freedom the the City items seem to be from the state visit to Ireland in 1963. The grant of arms to JFK was presented on St. Patrick’s Day 1961.
"...though Irish rather than American other than by gift…"
That’s why I wrote AMERICA’S instead of AMERICAN, dear Michael:)
I wasn’t objecting, merely observing—though a collection of heraldic treasures, whether labeled "America’s" or "American" should IMO emphasize (thought not exclusively) "domestic content."
The collection serves at least two distinct purposes (maybe more) -
* to showcase the best in heraldic art that is in some way related to America (like these Irish gifts, or the original Spanish grants to Columbus by Their Catholic Majesties)
—AND—
* to demonstrate heraldry’s place in our history and traditions (focusing IMO on items produced or actually used here—e.g. Paul Revere’s armorial silver, the seals used by GW, Ben Franklin & other founding fathers, or the made-in-USA armorial banner of JFK’s Irish arms, which IIRC one of his brothers carried up Mount Kennedy several years ago)
Both categories have a place in our collection—and the distinction between the two may be a bit fuzzy—but the criteria may differ a bit.
That signet ring from Roanake is especially beautiful to me, despite being unreadable.
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