Use/Display of Personal Arms?

 
Charles E. Drake
 
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Charles E. Drake
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31 January 2011 01:52
 

I use (my) arms in the following ways, although the compositions and arrangements of quarterings and additaments are not all the same.

framed grants

signet ring

stationery

business cards (for "social" use)

bookplate

table banner

large house flag

funeral pall for my parents

funeral hatchments for my parents

ledger stones for my parents

illustrations for pedigree charts

computer desktop image

avatars

in electronic signatures

 

And there are probably some I’ve forgotten.

 
John Mck
 
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John Mck
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31 January 2011 06:30
 

- Background for phone; internet avatars

- Library painting courtesy of Denny

 

- When my current checkbook runs out (in 4 or 5 years, at the rate I am going) I will have heraldic checks made up.

 

- I’d like to get a sticker made for, of all things, my downhill skiing helmet.

 

- The proverbial fridge magnet.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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31 January 2011 16:51
 

RE: personal uses of heraldry:

* Seal ring

* Luggage tags (arms on one side, business card on the other, laminated together—all at Kinko’s, my heraldry workshop away from home)

* Laminated color prints of various renditions of my own & others’ arms, for use at HSS tent at Highland Games to visually demonstrate various points, including the variety of artistic styles & "license" with the same arms.

==============

 

Side issue (personal peeve)—

David wrote, "Most of those buried there were Scots-Irish who emigrated prior to the Revolution."

 

Historically there never was a creature known as "Scots-Irish"—we were, are, and forevermore shall be "Scotch-Irish."  Just as we generally—and quite rightly—honor the modern Scottish practice of referring to themselves as "Scots" or "Scottish" (and in Northern Ireland as "Ulster-Scots") rather than "Scotch,"  we are equally entitled to call ourselves, and be called by others, "Scotch-Irish."

 

The recent tendency by some both here and in the old countries to re-brand us to suit the sensitivities of others denies our own separate historical identity ("neither Scots nor Irish") once our ancestors left both homelands behind and crossed the big pond.  We were "Scotch" or ""Scotch-Irish" when we left; and subsequent name-changes in the Old Country are their business, but in no way binding or even applicable to us.

 

Also, I’ve been told often over the years that the Scottish preference for "Scots" reflects a high-minded desire to dissociate themselves from the spiritous beverage—swell if that’s what they prefer, but hardly applicable to the hardy American, largely Scotch-Irish, folk of Whiskey Rebellion and moonshine fame!

 
George Lucki
 
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George Lucki
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31 January 2011 18:22
 

Hmmm… more than I thought
<ol class=“bbcode_list”>
<li>Signet ring</li>
<li>19th century desk seal</li>
<li>Banner (fly it several times a year)</li>
<li>Library painting (one at home and one in my office)</li>
<li>Table shield for RHSC events</li>
<li>Avatars on heraldic forums</li>
<li>Bookplate</li>
<li>Personal letterhead (infrequently used)</li>
<li>A shield shaped dish with painted arms for wallet, watch and contents of pockets</li>
<li>But most importantly, I have a depiction of my arms in Lego pieces made by my daughter when she was about in grade three.</li>
</ol>
I plan on getting some heraldic cufflinks. I actually think that these are practical for office wear. In my imagination there are also carved arms in the gable of my home over the front entrance and other similar improbably grand applications.

Near where I grew up if the tree is still standing there may still be a crude representation of my arms cut into the bark along with a date. smile

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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31 January 2011 18:36
 

Michael F. McCartney;81355 wrote:

The recent tendency by some both here and in the old countries to re-brand us to suit the sensitivities of others denies our own separate historical identity ("neither Scots nor Irish") once our ancestors left both homelands behind and crossed the big pond. We were "Scotch" or ""Scotch-Irish" when we left;


Or, in the new country, simply "Irish." The vast majority of references to "Irish" in the United States before the 1840s are to Scotch-Irish.

 

PS:  And to bore people with something I think I’ve posted before—

 

"Now let us thank our Maker

For that which we are not,

For we know we’re not Irish

And He knows we’re not Scots."

 

PPS:  My McMillan line is probably not Scotch-Irish but most likely Highlands to the Cape Fear Valley of North Carolina, but I have plenty of Scotch-Irish up various other lines of Hendersons, Waldrups, Ellisons, Daniels, etc.

 
David Pope
 
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David Pope
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31 January 2011 18:45
 

Mods,

Would it be possible to pull this post and the other related posts on this subject into a new "Off-Topic" thread?  I think some may be interested in it, but it’s not connected to heraldry so I’m a bit leery.

 

David

 


Michael F. McCartney;81355 wrote:

==============

Side issue (personal peeve)—

David wrote, "Most of those buried there were Scots-Irish who emigrated prior to the Revolution."

 

Historically there never was a creature known as "Scots-Irish"—we were, are, and forevermore shall be "Scotch-Irish."  Just as we generally—and quite rightly—honor the modern Scottish practice of referring to themselves as "Scots" or "Scottish" (and in Northern Ireland as "Ulster-Scots") rather than "Scotch,"  we are equally entitled to call ourselves, and be called by others, "Scotch-Irish."

 

The recent tendency by some both here and in the old countries to re-brand us to suit the sensitivities of others denies our own separate historical identity ("neither Scots nor Irish") once our ancestors left both homelands behind and crossed the big pond.  We were "Scotch" or ""Scotch-Irish" when we left; and subsequent name-changes in the Old Country are their business, but in no way binding or even applicable to us.

 

Also, I’ve been told often over the years that the Scottish preference for "Scots" reflects a high-minded desire to dissociate themselves from the spiritous beverage—swell if that’s what they prefer, but hardly applicable to the hardy American, largely Scotch-Irish, folk of Whiskey Rebellion and moonshine fame!


Michael,

 

Point taken, but it’s a matter of necessity to call them something.  I understand your gripes with ‘Scots-Irish" and "Ulster Scots", but I’m not sure that your choice of "Scotch-Irish" is correct.  I just pulled Patrick Griffin’s book "The People with No Name" off my shelf.  In discussing what to call these immigrants, Griffin cites contemporary examples where the titles "Scotch", "Scotch-Irish", and "Irish" were all rejected by those upon whom the titles were bestowed.  Leyburn writes that these people were most often referred to as "Ulster Irish", "Northern Irish", or "Irish Presbyterians" by those outside this group when referring to them.

 

Leyburn traces the first use of the term "Scotch-Irish" to a document of Queen Elizabeth in 1573, although the group she was referring to were Highlanders who had gone to Ireland.  Leyburn does reference uses of "Scotch-Irish" as a descriptor, but these seem to be in the writings of Quakers and Episcopalians and the term is used in a derogatory way.  One piquant example that Leyburn quotes is a Marylander accused of murder who is recorded as calling the victim and his compatriots "damned Scotch-Irish sons of b—s".

 

Charles Woodmason, an Anglican priest, writing of Carolinian backcountry inhabitants prior to the Revolution describes them in this way: "Ignorant, mean, worthless, beggarly Irish Presbyterians…"

 

I don’t have more time right now to research, but that’s a quick overview.  I’d be interested if you have period examples where the term "Scotch-Irish" was used by this particular people group as a means of self-identification.

 

David

 
eploy
 
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eploy
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31 January 2011 21:36
 

Interesting thread.  With regard to the signet rings, who did you guys use?  Dexter Seal Engraving at:  http://www.familysealrings.com/?  Does anyone have any alternative sources?  Did you guys have your entire coats of arms engraved or just the shield or crest?  Would you guys mind sharing some photos?

 
Kelisli
 
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Kelisli
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31 January 2011 22:23
 

Ronny Andersen;81334 wrote:

Hassan, please post pictures of the wall and table shield when you have them (Artist? Baz Manning?)

I use my coat-of-arms in these ways:

 

Library paintings (by John Ferguson, Andy Jamiesom and myself)

Bookplates (by Gordon Macpherson, Marco Foppoli and soon Michael Medvedev)

Signet ring

Fob seal

Stationery

On my Iphone

Heraldic banner

 

/Ronny

Yes, Baz is the artist and he did a phenomenal job.  He has sent me images but, they are very large.  I will reduce them and post them, soon.

I also forgot two other uses of my arms:

- Personal signet rings

- Personal letterhead (crest only)

 
Kelisli
 
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Kelisli
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31 January 2011 22:33
 

Between me, my brother, and my cousins, we have used a couple of engravers:

Udo Stenger (full arms, shield and crest, and family tamga (badge) engraved in stone):

http://www.steudo-heraldic.de/

 

Xavier d’Andeville (shield, engraved in gold):

http://www.heraldiste.org/

 

Both did a phenomenal job and I am very satisfied with their work.

 

I have some photos already in different threads here, but I can send you an e-mail with a couple of photos if you would like.

 
Kelisli
 
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Kelisli
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31 January 2011 22:35
 

eploy;81360 wrote:

Interesting thread.  With regard to the signet rings, who did you guys use?  Dexter Seal Engraving at:  http://www.familysealrings.com/?  Does anyone have any alternative sources?  Did you guys have your entire coats of arms engraved or just the shield or crest?  Would you guys mind sharing some photos?

Between me, my brother, and my cousins, we have used a couple of engravers:

Udo Stenger (full arms, shield and crest, and family tamga (badge) engraved in stone):

http://www.steudo-heraldic.de/

 

Xavier d’Andeville (shield, engraved in gold):

http://www.heraldiste.org/

 

Both did a phenomenal job and I am very satisfied with their work.

 

I have some photos already in different threads here, but I can send you an e-mail with a couple of photos if you would like.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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31 January 2011 22:51
 

eploy;81360 wrote:

Interesting thread. With regard to the signet rings, who did you guys use? Dexter Seal Engraving at: http://www.familysealrings.com/? Does anyone have any alternative sources? Did you guys have your entire coats of arms engraved or just the shield or crest? Would you guys mind sharing some photos?


There’s a signet ring engraver named Eric Margry here in Alexandria, VA.  I haven’t stopped by the shop, but from his website it looks like he does good work.  (And let us take the commentary about the term "family crest" as read.)

 

http://www.familycrestring.com/

 
Charles E. Drake
 
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Charles E. Drake
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01 February 2011 01:16
 

Oh, I forgot, I also have some heraldic plates with the arms of Drake of Ashe which I purchased second-hand, and did not commission. Not the arms I customarily display, but connected closely enough to be fun.

 
George Lucki
 
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George Lucki
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02 February 2011 02:32
 

eploy;81360 wrote:

Interesting thread. With regard to the signet rings, who did you guys use? Dexter Seal Engraving at: http://www.familysealrings.com/? Does anyone have any alternative sources? Did you guys have your entire coats of arms engraved or just the shield or crest? Would you guys mind sharing some photos?


Piotr Zdanowicz who has a small shop in Warsaw’s Old City has done up rings for several members of my family www.zdanfirm.pl - his engraving is done by hand. It is deep and clean and very good in my opinion.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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03 February 2011 15:57
 

David wrote: (re: Scots / Scotch ):

Mods,

Would it be possible to pull this post and the other related posts on this subject into a new "Off-Topic" thread? I think some may be interested in it, but it’s not connected to heraldry so I’m a bit leery.

That’s perfectly OK by me!  Then readers can address or ignore the topic on its own merits… smile

 
eploy
 
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eploy
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03 February 2011 21:25
 

Thanks guys for the information.  I will check out the various websites given.  I also found the website for Pascal Douliere at: http://www.douliere.com/ if anyone is interested.