New Member to Begin Designing

 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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02 May 2011 16:09
 

Well don’t settle for something if you’re not going to be happy with it.  Yes, you can give a nod to the country who holds the origins of your surname.  Sometimes it’s a nice thing to do, but if you don’t like how it looks, or won’t be happy with it, then don’t do it.  My surname is Polish, but I don’t really care for the overall look of Polish heraldry, so I didn’t do a design that looks Polish.  I am an American after all and can do what I want wink.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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02 May 2011 16:10
 

jcar;82364 wrote:

But then, looking a little more, the city of Madrid’s arms are almost identical as well, except it looks like an apple tree instead of an oak. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Escudo_de_la_Villa_de_Madrid.svg


The Madrid arms show the bear standing up and eating fruit from the tree (a madroño, or "strawberry tree") rather than walking in front of it.

 
j.carrasco
 
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j.carrasco
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02 May 2011 16:12
 

Joseph McMillan;82366 wrote:

The Madrid arms show the bear standing up and eating fruit from the tree (a madroño, or "strawberry tree") rather than walking in front of it.


Yeah, the Madrid arms was more in reference to what Philip was showing.

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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02 May 2011 16:13
 

J. Stolarz;82345 wrote:

I think it’s a good thing to give a nod to your ancestry, or the country where your surname has origins, but not at the risk of ending up with arms other people will look at, and raise their eyebrow.  Your symbolism could be impeccable, and your layout can be traditional, but who really cares if it looks bad?

This is the naivety I’m talking about. It’s those in your scenario who would be raising their eyebrows who could stand to be educated and IMHO the would-be armiger would be wrong to cater to them. And while something may look off to some because it doesn’t have the aesthetic of British heraldry, that doesn’t mean that it looks bad in any objective sense. Good and bad are very, very subjective and are informed by our own knowledge and experience.


Kathy McClurg;82348 wrote:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I like the tree/acorn (3 as Father suggests) and the bear.

 

Although I see the Spanish Heraldry bent (I did peruse the primer), My very limitted knowledge makes me think "civic heraldry" when I see this shield.  I’m not sure if that’s inexperience (probably) or valid in some way, so I’m just mentioning it.

I don’t know of any online resources for Spanish arms that would be the equivalent of Burke or Rietstap (though they may exist). Jesse had mentioned a bear in his first post and Mark Olivo had mentioned the use of an oak tree as a cant (I remember very little from my few Spanish classes in college), so I did turn to the online bucket shops arms listed for Carrasco as an obvious jumping off point.

 
 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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02 May 2011 16:22
 

I wouldn’t call it naive though, I would call it my opinion.  An opinion most people seem to share since most people favor British style heraldry.

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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02 May 2011 16:34
 

J. Stolarz;82369 wrote:

I wouldn’t call it naive though, I would call it my opinion.  An opinion most people seem to share since most people favor British style heraldry.

Most people? Most people where? In France? In Spain? In Germany? In Russia? In the Netherlands? Or do you mean most people in the former British colony of the United States? I think who you are talking about when you say "most people" are people who have only ever seen British heraldry. It is therefore next to impossible to call that a preference per se and perfectly reasonable to classify those "opinions" as naive.

 
 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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02 May 2011 16:44
 

I apologize for not getting more specific with my comments, had I known you’d dissect them so intently, I would have been more careful with my wording.

Shall we get back to helping this gentleman design his arms, instead of making pointless attacks against eachother?

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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02 May 2011 17:12
 

Josh: It is hardly my intent to attack you and I hope sincerely that you don’t really think that I am. I am only trying to point out that sometimes, in our efforts to give the best advice we can regarding the development of an heraldic achievement, it is necessary to look beyond our own cultural biases and even our own ideas of what is good or bad. Not to do so does a disservice to the very real diversity of this art form that we all love.

If Jesse wants something more British in nature and aesthetics, that is his choice. I just think it’s up to us to show him the various options - not to steer him towards something he doesn’t want, but to show him things he may not have considered.

 
 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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02 May 2011 17:17
 

Kenneth Mansfield;82374 wrote:

Josh: It is hardly my intent to attack you and I hope sincerely that you don’t really think that I am. I am only trying to point out that sometimes, in our efforts to give the best advice we can regarding the development of an heraldic achievement, it is necessary to look beyond our own cultural biases and even our own ideas of what is good or bad. Not to do so does a disservice to the very real diversity of this art form that we all love.

If Jesse wants something more British in nature and aesthetics, that is his choice. I just think it’s up to us to show him the various options - not to steer him towards something he doesn’t want, but to show him things he may not have considered.


I was starting to feel a little attacked, but I do understand your intent now as well.  I completely agree that we should help people weigh their options, and present them with styles and ideas they may not have considered before.

 

That being said, in my humble British preferenced opinion, move the bear to the crest :D.

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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02 May 2011 17:26
 

The variation proposed by Fr. Dohrman of letting the acorns represent the siblings.


<div class=“bbcode_center” >
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6061/carrasco002.png
</div>

 
 
werewolves
 
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werewolves
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02 May 2011 18:29
 

I don’t have time to mock it up, but how about:

Per chevron Azure and Vert in chief three acorns and in base a bear all Or

Or, for those who don’t like parted fields of two colors:

 

Per chevron Or and Vert in chief three acorns Azure and in base a bear Or

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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02 May 2011 19:49
 

Jesse - we don’t want you to think we’re giving your ideas short schrift, so…
jcar;82326 wrote:

2)  Per quarter Argent and Vert ermined Argent, over all on a pale Sable a bear rampant Argent (or 3 white stars in the vertical instead of the bear)

I think I prefer this one with the stars rather than trying to squeeze a bear onto that pale.


<div class=“bbcode_center” >
http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/8837/carrasco004.png
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jcar;82326 wrote:

3)  This is one that is totally different, and I think might have too much going on.  Per pale bleu celeste and Azure, in chief dexter a sun with human face in full splendor Or, in chief sinister a crescent moon with human face Argent, over all a mound Vert with oak tree proper  I am also considering putting a white border around this one but, again, it all might be too much.

You might also try dividing the bordure per pale.


<div class=“bbcode_center” >
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/634/carrasco005.png http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/7987/carrasco005b.png http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4344/carrasco005c.png
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werewolves;82380 wrote:

I don’t have time to mock it up, but how about:

Per chevron Azure and Vert in chief three acorns and in base a bear all Or

Or, for those who don’t like parted fields of two colors:

 

Per chevron Or and Vert in chief three acorns Azure and in base a bear Or

Kevin’s ideas (roughly):
<div class=“bbcode_center” >
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4504/carrasco006.png http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5697/carrasco007.png
</div>

 
 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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02 May 2011 19:49
 

Which led me to another idea, Azure between three Acorns slipped and leaved a Bear passant Or.


<div class=“bbcode_center” >
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1362/carrasco008.png
</div>

 
 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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02 May 2011 20:00
 

Kenneth Mansfield;82385 wrote:

<div class=“bbcode_center” >
http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/8837/carrasco004.png

</div>


So far this one grabbed my attention the most.

 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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02 May 2011 20:15
 

Then for the sake of options.  It, without ermine

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p122/BrokenChainsX/Arm.png