Looking for Vanderbilt

 
gselvester
 
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gselvester
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23 September 2011 15:07
 

Does anyone know if Cornelius Vanderbilt was armigerous? if so were the arms assumed. I’m curious to know if he had arms and, if so, what they were.

 
Caledonian
 
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Caledonian
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23 September 2011 15:17
 

gselvester;87873 wrote:

Does anyone know if Cornelius Vanderbilt was armigerous? if so were the arms assumed. I’m curious to know if he had arms and, if so, what they were.


Here is a photograph of a coat of arms carved in stone on Biltmore, the country manor house of Cornelius Vanderbilt’s grandson, George Washington Vanderbilt, located near Asheville, North Carolina:

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2097/2073085217_834f2bf624.jpg

 
Caledonian
 
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Caledonian
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23 September 2011 16:44
 

According to this site:

http://www.adrianalan.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=6&tabindex=5&objectid=121916&mediaid=226714

 

The coat of arms shown carved on Biltmore House was the same coat of arms used by the Vanderbilt family, which may have been designed by Cornelius Vanderbilt’s wife:

 

"These specially commissioned plates are emblazoned with the Vanderbilt family crest, the acorn and oak leaf heraldry device, which was designed by Mrs. Cornelius II (Alice Claypoole Gwynne Vanderbilt) to counteract the nouveaux riche sentiment the Vanderbilts initially received from more established New York families. The acorn and oak leaf motif, symbolising the family’s strength and endurance, appears throughout the Vanderbilt family properties, represented on everything from wall panelling to decorative and even functional items."

 

http://www.adrianalan.com/FullScreenZoom.aspx?photos_zoom=AlanAdrphoto/Alan1572008T18631.jpg

 
kimon
 
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kimon
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23 September 2011 16:52
 

The second image Caledonian posted goes to an Adobe Flash presentation and will not display inline.

For those interested in viewing this excellent find by him: http://www.adrianalan.com/FullScreenZoom.aspx?photos_zoom=AlanAdrphoto/Alan1572008T18631.jpg

 
j.carrasco
 
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j.carrasco
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23 September 2011 16:59
 

3 acorns slipped and leaved.  Hm, that looks good.  I think they had good taste.  wink

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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23 September 2011 20:52
 

The image shows an impaled coat—the sinister half is apparently Sable, three acorns slipped & leaved, 1 and 2 (unsure of color).  The dexter half is Or with what appears to be a dimidiated eagle—strange…

(Not "wrong" just difficult to decipher)

 
eploy
 
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eploy
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23 September 2011 21:00
 

Caledonian;87875 wrote:

"These specially commissioned plates are emblazoned with the Vanderbilt family crest, the acorn and oak leaf heraldry device, which was designed by Mrs. Cornelius II (Alice Claypoole Gwynne Vanderbilt) to counteract the nouveaux riche sentiment the Vanderbilts initially received from more established New York families. The acorn and oak leaf motif, symbolising the family’s strength and endurance, appears throughout the Vanderbilt family properties, represented on everything from wall panelling to decorative and even functional items."


Does this mean that the more established New York families also had arms, and that a ‘new’ family without arms was somehow looked down upon among the established families?  Weren’t most of these arms simply assumed anyway by such families as the van Rensselaers?

 
eploy
 
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eploy
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23 September 2011 21:02
 

The oak leaf motif also appears in the arms of Vanderbilt University:

Or, an oak leaf bendwise sinister fructed of one acorn Argent fimbriated and slipped Sable.

 
Caledonian
 
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Caledonian
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23 September 2011 21:07
 

Michael F. McCartney;87878 wrote:

The image shows an impaled coat—the sinister half is apparently Sable, three acorns slipped & leaved, 1 and 2 (unsure of color).  The dexter half is Or with what appears to be a dimidiated eagle—strange…

(Not "wrong" just difficult to decipher)


Here is a bookplate belonging to Reginald Vanderbilt:

 

http://pratt.lunaimaging.com:8081/MediaManager/srvr?mediafile=/Size1/PRATTPRT-21-NA/1113/sc01115.jpg&userid=1&username=pratt&resolution=1&servertype=JVA&cid=21&iid=PRATTPRT&vcid=NA&usergroup=Pratt_Institute_Bookplate_Collection-21-Admin&profileid=108

 

Not sure if this will show up, here is the link (last one at the bottom):

 

http://www.lunacommons.org/luna/servlet/view/all/what/Heraldic+bookplates/when/n.d./?os=50

 
Caledonian
 
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Caledonian
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23 September 2011 21:18
 

Michael F. McCartney;87878 wrote:

The image shows an impaled coat—the sinister half is apparently Sable, three acorns slipped & leaved, 1 and 2 (unsure of color).  The dexter half is Or with what appears to be a dimidiated eagle—strange…

(Not "wrong" just difficult to decipher)


The acorns slipped and leaved are Or on Sable; the Eagle displayed is Sable on Or.

 
Caledonian
 
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Caledonian
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23 September 2011 22:55
 
 
Richard G.
 
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Richard G.
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24 September 2011 02:49
 

At the risk of displaying my ignorance can someone explain why the arms in the first post are impaled? Or could this simply be a result of whim?

 
Iain Boyd
 
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Iain Boyd
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24 September 2011 05:03
 

Dear Richard,

The dexter half of the shield is not impaled but dimidiated - an early form of marshalling where two coats of arms are divided in half and then joined together. It was soon overtaken by impalement where the whole coat of arms were joined together.

 

There are quite a few Germanic coats of arms where only half an eagle appears.

 

The third quarter in Reginald Vanderbilt’s bookplate is very interesting - a shield on a shield in the quarter.

 

This probably was done so that the coronet could be displayed.

 

Regards,

 

Iain Boyd

 
JamesD
 
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JamesD
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24 September 2011 08:25
 

Google reveals that a mantlepiece from Cornelius Vanderbilt’s now-demolished mansion on 5th Avenue can be seen in the Metropolitan Museum. This webpage notes that,
Quote:

The richly modeled mantel includes the Vanderbilt crest in the left medallion and, in the right medallion, the family coat of arms.

The photo below comes from the mantlepiece’s webpage on the Metropolitan Museum’s website. Using the magnification feature on that page (which doesn’t actually help much), the shield seems as already described but it appears that Cornelius used a different crest to the one previously shown in this thread, namely a lion rampant regardant holding something in its paws.

http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=85&pictureid=1355

 
lucduerloo
 
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lucduerloo
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24 September 2011 12:46
 

At the Breakers in Newport the arms on display show the three acorns only. At Marble House on the other hand, they are impaled with the half eagle (often known in the Low Countries as a Frisian eagle) in the dexter and the acorns in the sinister. Either way, that is by my reckoning a generation down from Cornelius.

 
Alexander Liptak
 
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Alexander Liptak
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24 September 2011 14:11
 

maybe the crest from the mantle is the crest that goes with the second quarter from Reginald Vanderbilt’s bookplate, since they both make use of a lion. Then again, perhaps it was not meant to be a crest on the mantle at all, but a representation of the second quartering whose ever arms those may be.