Illuminated manuscript for sale on eBay

 
kimon
 
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kimon
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31 July 2011 21:07
 

If anyone has $80K burning a hole in their pocket, I found a great item on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/200543836890#ht_46681wt_1139

It’s an illuminated manuscript from 1581, a "Carta executoria" by King Philip II of Spain.

 
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eploy
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31 July 2011 22:30
 

Wow what a find!  It really belongs in a museum.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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02 August 2011 10:04
 

something smells fishy here….seems odd that a work of art, such as this, is being sold via e-bay. i’ve never brokered a deal for a piece of art as expensive as this, but with what i have to do….and who i have to go through….i’m just surprised this is listed on e-bay. smells fishy to me. but, what do i know…

 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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02 August 2011 10:12
 

Oh good, I was wondering what I could do with all the money I have laying around my house.  It’s starting to clutter things up wink

 
Aquilo
 
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Aquilo
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02 August 2011 14:44
 

Donnchadh;86598 wrote:

something smells fishy here….seems odd that a work of art, such as this, is being sold via e-bay. i’ve never brokered a deal for a piece of art as expensive as this, but with what i have to do….and who i have to go through….i’m just surprised this is listed on e-bay. smells fishy to me. but, what do i know…


I’m not that suspicious ,since there are many valuable and expensive pieces of art available in Europe,but in any case I would think twice .It happens from time to time that volumes stolen from museums and archives make somehow to the market.There were cases in Eastern European countries under investigation and by the time the crimes were solved very precious manuscripts were destroyed…simply sold out page by page because of their attractive and rich eye-catching illuminations .The value of the whole volume would be of course relatively much much higher.

In this case the seller from Markkleeberg is selling both - the whole manuscript and single leafs out of an antique book….hm…:)

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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05 August 2011 23:50
 

yes, i broker art as part of my art biz, so i’m aware of that and that’s part of what makes me very suspicious of what’s here.

 
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eploy
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06 August 2011 00:11
 

I’ve heard of odd things being sold through ebay:  beachfront property, ranches, manor homes and exotic cars.  In light of these past sales, the sale of an illuminated manuscript doesn’t strike me as unusual.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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07 August 2011 01:10
 

and imo those examples point to what i’m saying. no reputable art dealer, gallery owner, or art owner would use ebay to sell/trade/barter their goods in any way. the fact that people have used ebay, as you illustrate, simply proves my opinion. but, then, i’m biased and i’ve seen people who’ve been burned by fake art/merchandise, or stolen art/merchandise, purchases form places like Craig’s List and ebay.

 
Richard G.
 
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Richard G.
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07 August 2011 04:50
 

What strikes me as odd is that this book appears to have no provenance. Often a work like this will have a genealogy of ownership to help establish it is not a forgery, reproduction or has been stolen. A genealogy of ownership usually includes a study of the circumstances in which a book changes ownership and evidence left in books on how the previous owners have interacted with them.

Neither is there any reference to the book’s external source of information such as library or auction catalogues.

 

I’ve also noted the sale doesn’t include any expert certification that could make a substantial difference in price.

 
Aquilo
 
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Aquilo
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07 August 2011 19:22
 

In addition to these manuscripts I found a real treasure in Antiquariat Neumann Walter ! What about Albrecht Durer’s ‘lifetime impression’  dated 1501 for about EUR 4000 ? Any original printed before 1528 could be worth millions I guess ...just to compare with ‘The Woman’s Bathhouse’ , a little ink drawing from 1496 that was valued at $ 10 million in 2001 when it was returned to the Bremen Museum in Germany ,where it had hung for a century before it disappeared at the end of WWII…I’m not an expert but this is ...well ...:confused:

 
Iain Boyd
 
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Iain Boyd
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08 August 2011 01:46
 

Greetings all,

I do not believe that the seller necessarily is trying to evade detection by selling the manuscript on eBay.

 

I have seen several medieval manuscripts being offered via AbeBooks for very large sums - greater than 30 to 50 thousand dollars.

 

I suspect that the current owner may be trying to avoid the high costs associated with auctioning the manuscript.

 

Also, by selling it via eBay, I assume that he may get the manuscript noticed by a greater number of potential purchasers.

 

Should you be interested in purchasing it I am sure that the seller would be willing to provide provenance.

 

If he is unable to do so, then would be the time to ‘set the dogs’ on him.

 

I have a number of Sotheby’s catalogues and agree that most items offered for sale include provenance.

 

However, it is interesting to note that in very many cases the first ‘known’ owner lived in the 19th century. Many manuscripts would have been ‘liberated’ during the French revolution and the Napoleonic wars.

 

Regards,

 

Iain Boyd

 
Aquilo
 
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Aquilo
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09 August 2011 09:58
 

Sorry, I must disagree with an argument that the seller is avoiding high cost of auctioning .Any specialist who recognizes the high quality and rarity of an item would rather have a second opinion of experts and he would take a chance to sell it at the highest obtainable rate to collectors who are ready to pay the price. Initial cost of auctioning would be eventually returned with high revenue .

By the mean time, we can see that the Spanish manuscript ‘sold ‘ much below initially demanded price of EUR 80.000 reappeared again as a new Item No- 190561450443 for sale for EUR 55.000 ??  Something really smells fishy …

Among other offered by the same seller are miniature illuminations on parchment from French manuscript ,all brutally cut out from larger pages in a senseless act of vandalism !

The same I can say about a double leaf ‘Antiphonar Bologna 1480’ …in fact there are at least two different parts of the same manuscript going for sale for as little as Euro 10 !!

 
Aquilo
 
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Aquilo
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17 August 2011 11:36
 

Very similar to that offered on eBay ‘Carta executoria de Hidalguia in favor of Miguel de Olmedilla ’ at estimated price $4,000 from Christie’s ...

http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4300183

 
JamesD
 
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JamesD
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17 August 2011 12:45
 

Aquilo;87134 wrote:

Very similar to that offered on eBay ‘Carta executoria de Hidalguia in favor of Miguel de Olmedilla ’ at estimated price $4,000 from Christie’s ...

http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4300183


... and it raised $4,780. That was in 2004. I wonder if it has proved a good investment? As the eBay item went for $79,189.00, it seems like it has!!

 
Andrew Stewart Jamieson
 
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Andrew Stewart Jamieson
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08 October 2011 17:29
 

kimon;86475 wrote:

If anyone has $80K burning a hole in their pocket, I found a great item on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/200543836890#ht_46681wt_1139

It’s an illuminated manuscript from 1581, a "Carta executoria" by King Philip II of Spain.


Worth every penny in my view. I have been priviliged to hande several medieval manuscripts and there is something quite beautiful about the vellum, the script and just the sense of history you are holding in your hand and the thought of who the original artists were and what they were like.  I wonder who now owns this?

 
Richard G.
 
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Richard G.
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09 October 2011 04:23
 

I once handled (with gloves) a medieval Book of Hours housed in a private collection. The phrase "to reach back and touch the face of time" occurred to me while doing so. It was a moving experience.