Does anyone know anything about registering arms with Spain? The person who is over heraldic matters for our clan wants me to register my arms in Spain. He gave me the information but it is in spanish so I have to get it translated and then have to go through the process of getting them rigistered. I was just hoping maybe someone here has done this and could help.
harold cannon;91307 wrote:
Does anyone know anything about registering arms with Spain? The person who is over heraldic matters for our clan wants me to register my arms in Spain. He gave me the information but it is in spanish so I have to get it translated and then have to go through the process of getting them rigistered. I was just hoping maybe someone here has done this and could help.
Hi Harold,
The subject has been discussed quite a bit in the past. Please do a search for "Spanish Registration" or "Cronista Rey de Armas", etc. Here’s one example:
http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6307&highlight=spanish+certification
Happy New Year!
—Guy
Or even, as for most registration questions, check the AHS website, or see this thread: http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6255
You might want to advise Scott that there is no one legally authorized to register personal arms in Spain at present.
That was my understanding as well but he had stated that they were still registering arms as of recent so is this a scam or what?
EDIT: I just sent Scott an email as to see why I would need to register them in Spain and informed him of what you have said. I hope to hear from him soon.
There is alot of outdated information and even some misinformation regarding Spanish heraldry on the internet. The person overseeing heraldic matters for your clan should read the Spain section of the foreign registration page of the AHS website.
Dear Harold,
Of which Clan are you a member and are speaking of? By by what authority does your friend speak?
All the best
John
liongam;91313 wrote:
Of which Clan are you a member and are speaking of?
In most heraldic forums, use of the word "clan" suggests an Irish and/or Scottish ancestry. Why not approach the Irish or Scottish heraldic authorities? I would think one of those heraldic offices would be a more suitable place for members of a "clan" to register their arms.
I am part of Clan MacMillan. As many of my family records were lost due to the war between the states it is impossible to trace my ancestry back to Scotland since the union burned much of the records that I would need. All I have is oral history an that doesn’t seem to be good enough for Lord Lyon. Our clans chief has his own herald which is not uncommon as there are others. He oversees the heraldic issues for the clan and they have come up with this as a way to make sure Americans who have assumed arms have them registered in at least 2 places and I also had to be formally "adopted" by our clan chief by way of a "bond of manrent". I know this seems a little crazy but I want to do things right as our chief and herald want them done.
What is the other place they use for registration?
harold cannon;91318 wrote:
I am part of Clan MacMillan. As many of my family records were lost due to the war between the states it is impossible to trace my ancestry back to Scotland since the union burned much of the records that I would need. All I have is oral history an that doesn’t seem to be good enough for Lord Lyon. Our clans chief has his own herald which is not uncommon as there are others. He oversees the heraldic issues for the clan and they have come up with this as a way to make sure Americans who have assumed arms have them registered in at least 2 places and I also had to be formally "adopted" by our clan chief by way of a "bond of manrent". I know this seems a little crazy but I want to do things right as our chief and herald want them done.
No it does not sound crazy. It sounds neat! Can those registrations be with private heraldic societies. Furthermore, presumably the clan already maintains it’s own armorial managed by a private herald. Isn’t that enough at least for the non-Scotland based members of the clan (i.e., those not formally under the jurisdiction of Lord Lyon)?
You would think it would be that simple! LOL! This is the way that they want to do it so I’m going to do my best to get it done.
harold cannon;91339 wrote:
You would think it would be that simple! LOL! This is the way that they want to do it so I’m going to do my best to get it done.
I think it’s excellent you are doing the legwork requested.
However, if this is a requirement for US members, I would think the clan herald should be able to guide you through the process and be very current (possibly in contact with) the authority where you need to register.
Of course, that’s just my typical half-empty opinion…
Perhaps the chief herald would rather US clan members would just avoid the problem and not use arms at all? Maybe he’s compromising by requiring two registrations against his better judgement so as not to have to be a bad guy and just reject US armigerousness out of hand? This can’t be the first such request and if no ready answer is forthcoming, or guidance, then their position might be that Americans are fickle and will lose interest after they get it out of their system. Pure speculation of course.
Jeffrey Boyd Garrison;91356 wrote:
Perhaps the chief herald would rather US clan members would just avoid the problem and not use arms at all? Maybe he’s compromising by requiring two registrations against his better judgement so as not to have to be a bad guy and just reject US armigerousness out of hand? This can’t be the first such request and if no ready answer is forthcoming, or guidance, then their position might be that Americans are fickle and will lose interest after they get it out of their system. Pure speculation of course.
WOW, I thought I was the cynic here… 
Jeffrey Boyd Garrison;91356 wrote:
Perhaps the chief herald would rather US clan members would just avoid the problem and not use arms at all? Maybe he’s compromising by requiring two registrations against his better judgement so as not to have to be a bad guy and just reject US armigerousness out of hand? This can’t be the first such request and if no ready answer is forthcoming, or guidance, then their position might be that Americans are fickle and will lose interest after they get it out of their system. Pure speculation of course.
Not sure I agree with this line of reasoning. If I were the clan’s herald I would want to see more armigerous clan members regardless of the source of the arms. While a Scottish or Irish grant may be more prestigious in many circles, assumed arms are certainly better than no arms. I can also appreciate that like Harold Cannon, many Americans may be of Irish or Scottish descent but not be able to prove it to the level of certainty required by those heraldic authorities. Requiring two registrations is also not an inordinately burdensome requirement so long as the registrations can be through private heraldic registrars and societies where registrations are often free or reasonably priced.
Jeffrey Boyd Garrison;91356 wrote:
Perhaps the chief herald would rather US clan members would just avoid the problem and not use arms at all? Maybe he’s compromising by requiring two registrations against his better judgement so as not to have to be a bad guy and just reject US armigerousness out of hand? This can’t be the first such request and if no ready answer is forthcoming, or guidance, then their position might be that Americans are fickle and will lose interest after they get it out of their system. Pure speculation of course.
No, this is clearly not the case. I’ve had several long conversations with the gentleman in question—Scott MacMillan, formerly on the staff of the OCHI—about the project. His aim, as we have discussed here before, is to enable clansmen to rebut the assertion of the self-appointed Scottish-games heraldry police who go around informing various and sundry people that the arms they’re bearing at games within the United States are illegal, inappropriate, out of place, whatever, if they’re not matriculated in Lyon Register. The underlying concept is, "my chief says it’s all right, so butt out," which implicitly requires a process for the chief to determine which arms are all right and which aren’t.
Now I would hasten to add that all along there have been details in the process with which I have disagreed, but Scott has not asked for my opinion on the two-registries requirement that Harold is now citing. Frankly, I don’t see why registering with one American society—NEHGS COH, ACH, or Augustan Society—wouldn’t be sufficient, but then it’s not my project.