new private organization registering US arms

 
steven harris
 
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steven harris
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14 May 2012 13:05
 

United States Armorials

http://www.usarmorials.com/

 
j.carrasco
 
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j.carrasco
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14 May 2012 13:47
 

Thanks for pointing that out Steven.

 
Hugh Brady
 
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Hugh Brady
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14 May 2012 14:32
 

Very interesting that there is no contact information whatsoever for any responsible personnel. WHOIS apparently lists just the web designer and the hosting company. And what need are they filling here that isn’t already filled, since, as they correctly note, their registration doesn’t confer any legal rights. If this is just a way to sell emblazonments, why don’t they just say so. Enterprises like this diminish our endeavor.

 
steven harris
 
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steven harris
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14 May 2012 15:23
 

It looks like it’s only been around about 5 weeks - and I can only find two registrations (one being that of the webmaster).

 
Dale Challener Roe
 
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Dale Challener Roe
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14 May 2012 16:25
 

Hugh Brady;93438 wrote:

Very interesting that there is no contact information whatsoever for any responsible personnel. WHOIS apparently lists just the web designer and the hosting company. And what need are they filling here that isn’t already filled, since, as they correctly note, their registration doesn’t confer any legal rights. If this is just a way to sell emblazonments, why don’t they just say so. Enterprises like this diminish our endeavor.


For now, I’m not going to judge.  It seems the person who runs it offers two basic services, registration (free) registration with certificate ($25, but free with a coupon—for now).

 

He doesn’t appear to offer design help, but instead suggests visiting many of the same sites we link to from the AHS, and even links to the various other US registries.

 

But if you want to know what need it fills, I’d guess it’s the same need the USHR would fill were it still active (it’s been almost 2 years since it conferred a registration, even though I know some have been submitted).

 

If I had to guess I’d say the site is a hobby project from someone from the IAAH (Kasparek, Rick E.).

 

 

** edited for clarity

 
Richard G.
 
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Richard G.
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14 May 2012 19:40
 

I see the organisations blazon reads; Bendy of 6 Argent and Gules, on the central Gules portion three escallops bendwise Or

Should it not read; Bendy of six Argent and Gules three escallops bendwise Or

 

The escallops being placed "on the Gules portion" by default. Where else would they be placed? Or am I missing something ...... :?:

 
J. Stolarz
 
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14 May 2012 19:51
 

It looks like a hobby type endeavor to me, which will probably collapse shortly.

 
Kathy McClurg
 
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Kathy McClurg
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14 May 2012 20:08
 

At least someone stepped up to try to replace or augment the USHR.  Unfortunate the artwork is clipart at best.

There have been many conversations here and on IAAH which have discussed the lack of an American Registry (positive and negative opinions).  Since this group has decided not to be a registration organization, I’d suggest those that believe such an endeavor is necessary go ahead and register your blazons for free - few minutes.

 

For sure it won’t be successful if we start from the negative perspective…

 
Kathy McClurg
 
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14 May 2012 20:11
 

Richard G.;93445 wrote:

I see the organisations blazon reads; Bendy of 6 Argent and Gules, on the central Gules portion three escallops bendwise Or

Should it not read; Bendy of six Argent and Gules three escallops bendwise Or

 

The escallops being placed "on the Gules portion" by default. Where else would they be placed? Or am I missing something ...... :?:


There was a very long discussion about this blazon on IAAH.  The result you see is still in discussion by the experts there… Frankly, I’m still waiting for a reasonable consensus….

 
Dale Challener Roe
 
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Dale Challener Roe
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14 May 2012 20:47
 

Richard G.;93445 wrote:

I see the organisations blazon reads; Bendy of 6 Argent and Gules, on the central Gules portion three escallops bendwise Or

Should it not read; Bendy of six Argent and Gules three escallops bendwise Or

 

The escallops being placed "on the Gules portion" by default. Where else would they be placed? Or am I missing something ...... :?:


Just for clarity, that does not appear to be the arms of United States Armorials (the website) but seems to be the arms of International Fellowship of Chivalry-Now (which are registered with the website).  I assume there’s some connection between the two, but I’m not sure what it is.

 
Jeffrey Boyd Garrison
 
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Jeffrey Boyd Garrison
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14 May 2012 21:01
 

With respect to the potential arguments proposing that the establishment of a seemingly ramshackle operation does more harm than good to the idea of free registration of arms, I tend to side with the idea that "something" is better than "nothing" and that quality can always have room to improve over time. Not a just a few of us have probably entertained the idea of filling the void left by the USHR somehow. Also, I’m in no way suggesting here that the aforementioned site is even remotely ramshackle (looks at least as nice as something I might hobble together and claims to be receiving updates and improvements which is very good).

The most successful operations often start out with duck tape and bubble gum yet they eventually become established in brick and mortar. Thus, I am inclined to cheer on this new web site and let the great darwinian hand of free market enterprise lift up the most adaptive and serviceable registration organization which would compete to occupy the environmental niche left by the USHR; the eventual end to possibly be esteemed of our credible reference here in the grand old AHS smile (unfortunately the flip side is that this same darwinian force yields such monstrous heresies as the bucket shops we all know and love).

 

As a final thought, I would hope that this would inspire others to open competing low priced and/or free registries. I would be grateful it if someone would share an image of their registration with this site so we can see what it looks like.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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14 May 2012 21:03
 

Actually, three escallops bendwise would be default be placed two and one, presumably on various red stripes although not necessarily, since a metal charge can overlay both tinctures of a party-colored field.

These would at a minimum need to be blazoned "in bend," and probably to avoid mistakes "bendwise in bend."

 
Kathy McClurg
 
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14 May 2012 21:25
 

Jeffrey Boyd Garrison;93453 wrote:

With respect to the potential arguments proposing that the establishment of a seemingly ramshackle operation does more harm than good to the idea of free registration of arms, I tend to side with the idea that "something" is better than "nothing" and that quality can always have room to improve over time. Not a just a few of us have probably entertained the idea of filling the void left by the USHR somehow. Also, I’m in no way suggesting here that the aforementioned site is even remotely ramshackle (looks at least as nice as something I might hobble together and claims to be receiving updates and improvements which is very good).

The most successful operations often start out with duck tape and bubble gum yet they eventually become established in brick and mortar. Thus, I am inclined to cheer on this new web site and let the great darwinian hand of free market enterprise lift up the most adaptive and serviceable registration organization which would compete to occupy the environmental niche left by the USHR; the eventual end to possibly be esteemed of our credible reference here in the grand old AHS smile (unfortunately the flip side is that this same darwinian force yields such monstrous heresies as the bucket shops we all know and love).

 

As a final thought, I would hope that this would inspire others to open competing low priced and/or free registries. I would be grateful it if someone would share an image of their registration with this site so we can see what it looks like.


I would rather not see competing sites.  I’d rather see one site where more than one person participates in the hosting/maintenance/etc. so we don’t have another USHR "end" with no follow-on or coninuation….  I’d really like to see USHR, if it is truly done, pass it’s information over as a consolidation effort…  Personally, I’m about to abuse the coupon by throwing all the McClurgs and the Beckers into the mix!

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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14 May 2012 21:36
 

Joe’s blazon is better, as to both design and blazon—or rather would be better—but unfortunately in this case the arms shown on the website have the escallops palewise rather than bendwise (if I’m saying it right)—I frequently trip over palewise in bend vs bendwise in pale.  The upright shells IMO don’t fit very well on the bend—too cramped IMO—but what is, is.  Not technically incorrect, just IMO not ideal.

 
Hugh Brady
 
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Hugh Brady
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14 May 2012 22:03
 

I think registrars should aspire to credibility and permanence. Both take an investment of time and money. I think Kathy has a very good point in that it is often too much for one person. The primary reason the COH/NEGHS is still operating is that it has both, and even its system is not perfect. Registrars need to be more than scriveners, and a registrar should state what it does (with any associated standards) and doesn’t do . If all it does is record the blazon, then (as previously noted on this forum) you’re just better off filing it at the county clerk’s office.

 
J. Stolarz
 
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15 May 2012 00:28
 

Kathy McClurg;93450 wrote:

At least someone stepped up to try to replace or augment the USHR.  Unfortunate the artwork is clipart at best.

There have been many conversations here and on IAAH which have discussed the lack of an American Registry (positive and negative opinions).  Since this group has decided not to be a registration organization, I’d suggest those that believe such an endeavor is necessary go ahead and register your blazons for free - few minutes.

 

For sure it won’t be successful if we start from the negative perspective…


The problem I see most often when I have brought the idea of starting a new organization much like USHR, with several volunteers instead of it being one persons pet project, is that most people write it off as unnecessary.