new private organization registering US arms

 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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16 May 2012 23:42
 

steven harris;93514 wrote:

It did - I haven’t heard anything.  (I included our email addresses, too).


Unfortunate

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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18 May 2012 16:20
 

The USHR site is nicely done and, given someone with the time to run it, a good system.  However, the essentials for preservation purposes are the blazons, who they belong to, and when assumed—essentially a line or two of text—with or without a drawing.

That shouldn’t infringe on the privacy of those listed, since they voluntarily placed that much & more on a public website with the hope that it would last; nor should it violate the copyright so long as the arms, if shown, were redrawn (generic clip art—basically just an heraldic blueprint).

 

All that is really needed (though not all one could wish for!) is the bare bones to establish that "x" arms were used by "y" no later than "z."

 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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19 May 2012 10:34
 

But, do you suggest that somebody, or better yet a small group of volunteers start a new website and system, based on USHR?  To me this seems the best option since contacting Mr. Swanson has fallen through in every attempt.  It’s unfortunate to lose all that he collected, but you can learn from the mistakes of USHR, and go into it with an obvious goal in mind.  The difference between a new website like this, and the one that the OP posted, would be the determination of said volunteers.  If it was more than one person involved, the chances of them staying motivated would be better.

 
Kathy McClurg
 
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Kathy McClurg
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19 May 2012 17:21
 

At the risk of repeating myself without re-reading the thread - I’d love to see NEGHS, ACH, USHR and Augustine (unsure I’m spelling that right) pool their resources behind someone or some group like this and post all their registrations online in one place - even if it’s just the blazons.  Hopefully with a decent search engine like the CHA has…  All could still engage in their "normal" activities, but in today’s age and online US armorial would be a nice thing to have…  The early American Armorial done so well by Joe and others here would be cool if it had a more robust search engine as well…

I love running around the CHA site looking for specific charges, types of grants etc…

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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19 May 2012 21:02
 

Kathy McClurg;93590 wrote:

The early American Armorial done so well by Joe and others here would be cool if it had a more robust search engine as well…


What would you like to search for?

 

If you just list what you’re looking for in Google and add the terms:

 

roll

 

and

 

site:.americanheraldry.org

 

you should get pretty much the same sort of hits you’ll get on the CHA site.

 

Although of course if someone in this society—ANYONE, REALLY!—wants to step up and design a search engine for the roll of arms, I’d be truly delighted.

 
Kathy McClurg
 
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20 May 2012 06:09
 

Joseph McMillan;93593 wrote:

What would you like to search for?

If you just list what you’re looking for in Google and add the terms:

 

roll

 

and

 

site:.americanheraldry.org

 

you should get pretty much the same sort of hits you’ll get on the CHA site.

 

Although of course if someone in this society—ANYONE, REALLY!—wants to step up and design a search engine for the roll of arms, I’d be truly delighted.


My comment was certainly not meant as a criticism.

 

I can find the roll fine..  When attempting to find, say "roses" using the method you cited, you get a hit of a page with Roses somewhere in the page (and all others)  when searching for "roses" on the CHA site as a main charge, you get the list of all the arms in the roll with roses.

 

The ability to search for specifics within the roll is cool in the CHA:  http://archive.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/reg-search-adv.asp?lang=e

 

I assume to add such an ability to the AHS would take tagging and metadata of some sort.

 

Unfortunately, all I’d be good for in this is the data entry portion - which I’d be willing to do if someone built the structure to enter it into.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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20 May 2012 07:36
 

Kathy,

I’m sorry for my snippy tone. I knew you weren’t being critical.  I’m just tired of this whole issue.  Everyone complains about the apparent demise of the USHR, everyone wants there to be a living, functioning registry (there are three, in fact), everyone wants it to be free or at least cheap (the first admiral I worked for, a supply corps officer, reminded us at least daily that there’s no free lunch), and everyone seems to be waiting for someone else to fill this perceived void on the American heraldic landscape.

 
Kathy McClurg
 
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20 May 2012 17:33
 

Joseph McMillan;93602 wrote:

Kathy,

I’m sorry for my snippy tone. I knew you weren’t being critical.  I’m just tired of this whole issue.  Everyone complains about the apparent demise of the USHR, everyone wants there to be a living, functioning registry (there are three, in fact), everyone wants it to be free or at least cheap (the first admiral I worked for, a supply corps officer, reminded us at least daily that there’s no free lunch), and everyone seems to be waiting for someone else to fill this perceived void on the American heraldic landscape.


We don’t entirely disagree on that… I am happy you didn’t take my comments as criticism - I hold a great deal of respect for you and the rest of the board and membership who keep this forum and AHS alive and well.

 

However, none of the 3 appear to be online registries - which in today’s climate is unfortunate to my way of thinking (assuming you are referring to the NEGHS, ACH and Augustan Society).  If they were willing - again, I am not capable of building the online structure or drawings, but I’d be willing to do data entry efforts voluntarily in a heartbeat.

 

And when someone tries to fill the online niche - we all criticize and find shortcomings rather than supporting the effort ....

 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
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Jeremy Keith Hammond
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21 May 2012 10:54
 

I have this nasty habit of over-extending myself in obligations. I do it in my community at home - so people are kind of used to it and find it endearing.

I readily admit I’ve done this in the heraldic community too, but not seeing me regularly, I could understand and share in people’s skepticism. Right now I’m trying to find time to squeeze in a revamp of the International Association of Amateur Heralds website for Martin Goldstraw - we’ll see how that goes.

 

That said, and at risk of getting folk’s hopes up, I have quite a few ideas regarding an online register. Some of you may be clued in if you saw some older threads in the IAAH forum. It’s ambitious, but I’ve been moving forward on it slowly. Seeing so many folks interested in volunteering - especially for the data entry - helps push me along.

 

Cognizant of my limitations above, and also the short-comings of one-man operations in the past, I’m working on a system that would not be reliant on me once set up.

 

In the next two months I will be doing research on web-based data systems. I’ll provide an update then with a more realistic idea of what’s going on.

 

Like I said, don’t get your hopes up. My life is pretty turbulent at the moment. However my recent misfortunes are ironically freeing up a lot of my time. If you’re interested in helping out - shoot me an email: jeremy.k.hammond@gmail.com. What’s more useful at the moment is folks with web development background - but I’m happy to hear from heraldry enthusiasts interested in data entry too.

 
Jeffrey Boyd Garrison
 
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21 May 2012 15:25
 

I think it’s great that you are wanting to give it a go Jeremy.

What do you think about using those custom wiki formats?

 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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21 May 2012 20:28
 

Jeremy Corbally-Hammond;93612 wrote:

shoot me an email


Email sent

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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21 May 2012 21:17
 

Another possible model (or at least source of ideas) for indexing, if it’s still around (where have we heard THAT before?) is, or at least was, the on-line armorial & ordinary of the SCA.  It’s been awhile since I looked at it (years, actually) but it struck me as a really nice way to store hundreds of blazons & names [though of course we’d want to use real-world names] and easily search that database by either name or terms in the blazon.

While their "game" and ours are quite different, a blazon is a blazon & a good search tool is a blessing.  I don’t remember if we have any regulars here who also play the SCA game, but if so they might share their impressions of the O&A (A&O?—sorry, as noted it’s been awhile).

 

And of course, we would need their OK to recycle their program.

 
Kathy McClurg
 
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22 May 2012 05:35
 

Jeremy Corbally-Hammond;93612 wrote:

I have this nasty habit of over-extending myself in obligations. I do it in my community at home - so people are kind of used to it and find it endearing.

I readily admit I’ve done this in the heraldic community too, but not seeing me regularly, I could understand and share in people’s skepticism. Right now I’m trying to find time to squeeze in a revamp of the International Association of Amateur Heralds website for Martin Goldstraw - we’ll see how that goes.

 

That said, and at risk of getting folk’s hopes up, I have quite a few ideas regarding an online register. Some of you may be clued in if you saw some older threads in the IAAH forum. It’s ambitious, but I’ve been moving forward on it slowly. Seeing so many folks interested in volunteering - especially for the data entry - helps push me along.

 

Cognizant of my limitations above, and also the short-comings of one-man operations in the past, I’m working on a system that would not be reliant on me once set up.

 

In the next two months I will be doing research on web-based data systems. I’ll provide an update then with a more realistic idea of what’s going on.

 

Like I said, don’t get your hopes up. My life is pretty turbulent at the moment. However my recent misfortunes are ironically freeing up a lot of my time. If you’re interested in helping out - shoot me an email: jeremy.k.hammond@gmail.com. What’s more useful at the moment is folks with web development background - but I’m happy to hear from heraldry enthusiasts interested in data entry too.


I find this kind of interesting.  instead of starting yet another and, as you have already admitted you’re over extended, Jeremy - why not make contact with the webmaster of this new one and offer assistance or find out his intent?  He’s offering "free" registrations for text/uploaded emblazon and $25 for certificates…  What if you contacted him, determined his long term intent and cut some form of "deal" to work together or form a loosely organized group?  Since Mr. Swanson is unreceptive and this guy is just starting…  rather than starting something new…. jump on a band wagon and help/advise/negotiate something..?

 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
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22 May 2012 11:06
 

That’s a good idea and one I’m open to. I should clarify that my ideas for an online register are somewhat more ambitious than a registry for contemporary assumed American arms, though.

 
J. Stolarz
 
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22 May 2012 11:10
 

Ambition is good in my opinion, and something a lot of these registries seem to be lacking.  I’d love to hear more.