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hollywood1765
 
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hollywood1765
Total Posts:  163
Joined  29-06-2012
 
 
 
03 July 2012 23:29
 

Cool thanks for that

I meant now I’m undecided between bordure or no bordure

 
hollywood1765
 
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hollywood1765
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04 July 2012 00:25
 

I want to thank you guys and gals for all of your input it was all very helpful

thanks for making a newbie feel welcome!

 
Kathy McClurg
 
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Kathy McClurg
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04 July 2012 06:47
 

hollywood1765;94436 wrote:

Wow Kathy McClurg your shield is great! I still have a LOT to learn

I love the you have it emblazoned by different artists


Thank you for the compliment.  I am quite happy with the arms and I love having a variety of emblazons.

 

For my rational (if you don’t want to search all over the threads here):  http://www.armorial-register.com/arms-us/mcclurg-ka-arms.html

 

I still vote "lose the Border" and remember to allow for artistic license (don’t worry about how mantlings and such turn out - let the artists work solely from you blazon once you pin it down).

 

I also agree with Michael McCartney - Don’t rush it.  Let this one go to the refrigerator and start again with a blank - maybe thinking of family history - special locations and such - the options at the beginning are rather endless.

 
hollywood1765
 
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hollywood1765
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04 July 2012 10:38
 

http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r498/hollywood1765/crestmedivaloldstyle.jpg

flipped eagle and blended chevron into bordure just to see if it works in a more traditional style ala Mr. Mansfield’s post

 

sorry ‘sorta’ attached to bordure

 
motx72
 
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motx72
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04 July 2012 11:46
 

Please excuse me if I missed it,but what was the meaning of the border? I know you mentioned your thoughts about the other components. Is this just something you like the look of, or does it have some special significance as well?

 
hollywood1765
 
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hollywood1765
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04 July 2012 12:43
 

Actually just something I liked

 
hollywood1765
 
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hollywood1765
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04 July 2012 12:45
 

Whaaaat! Jared Entzminger you put your shield on a football helmet!!!!!!! nice!!!!!!

 
motx72
 
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motx72
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04 July 2012 20:24
 

hollywood1765;94470 wrote:

Whaaaat! Jared Entzminger you put your shield on a football helmet!!!!!!! nice!!!!!!


Actually, it was courtesy of Rob Schreiber!  I love it as well.  Very cool indeed.  :cool:

 
hollywood1765
 
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hollywood1765
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06 July 2012 11:02
 

So if your arms had a bordure and someone copied your arms sans bordure (not a descendant) that would be a completely new set of arms?

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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06 July 2012 11:37
 

hollywood1765;94519 wrote:

So if your arms had a bordure and someone copied your arms sans bordure (not a descendant) that would be a completely new set of arms?


The very old English rule (laid down by Richard II in the Scrope-Grosvenor controversy) is that the addition of a bordure is appropriate to differentiate between the arms of kinsmen but inadequate for strangers in blood.

 

I don’t know that anyone has ever ruled authoritatively on the subtraction of a bordure, possibly because it’s unusual (and arguably not the best heraldic practice) to design original arms with one. But that’s a theoretical discussion for another time. I would say based on the Scrope-Grosvenor precedent that it would be a usurpation for someone unrelated to you to take the arms you’ve designed, remove the bordure, and then use them as his own.

 
j.carrasco
 
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j.carrasco
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06 July 2012 12:26
 

Joseph McMillan;94520 wrote:

The very old English rule (laid down by Richard II in the Scrope-Grosvenor controversey) is that the addition of a bordure is appropriate to differentiate between the arms of kinsmen but inadequate for strangers in blood.

I don’t know that anyone has ever ruled authoritatively on the subtraction of a bordure, possibly because it’s unusual (and arguably not the best heraldic practice) to design original arms with one.  But that’s a theoretical discussion for another time.  I would say based on the Scrope-Grosvenor precedent that it would be a usurpation for someone unrelated to you to take the arms you’ve designed, remove the bordure, and then use them as his own.


I have no knowledge of this so I am basing this solely on my opinion, but I would agree with what Joseph said.  To me, seeing a bordure usually makes me think that it’s a mark of differentiation of arms.  So if I saw that the bordure was suddenly removed I would go one step back and think that those arms would belong to the father (or some other family member).  To see a completely unrelated person using the same arms without a bordure would be very odd to me.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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06 July 2012 12:27
 

What Joe said.

By (probably inept) analogy, if I steal a painting, I can’t make it really "mine" by removing the frame.

 

If one were to remove the boerder AND make additional changes, that might be a different matter—IF the additional changes, standing alone, would be sufficient to create a distinctive new design.

 
hollywood1765
 
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hollywood1765
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06 July 2012 13:37
 

Thanks guys very informative!

 
hollywood1765
 
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hollywood1765
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18 July 2012 12:07
 

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5451/woodsonshieldnohighligh.jpg

I know how some feel about the bordure but I still hope that you like

I’m having a more traditional version emblazoned by a heraldic artist

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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18 July 2012 12:19
 

I like the arms just fine, even with the (unnecessary) bordure. They are very nice for an individual effort, particularly by a novice (that’s meant as a compliment). But I have to admit I look forward to seeing a more traditional version.