International Heraldry Day

 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
Avatar
 
 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
Total Posts:  789
Joined  20-06-2008
 
 
 
23 April 2013 14:17
 

Interesting post on IAAH forum, started by Tomasz Steifer, Polish Heraldic Community.


Quote:

Polish Heraldic Community , in the persons of the representatives of the Board, Tomasz Steifer, Vice-President of PHC and Pawel S. Towpik, Secretary of the Board, proposes to create a new tradition - the International Day of heraldry. This was to a great, over political, international opportunity for meetings, conferences and taken away heraldic organization, heralds and heraldist of different countries and continents, to the posting of flags, especially heraldic, dress in heraldic tunics and tabards, etc.

We propose that this international day of heraldry at 10 June. On that day, in the year 1128, in Rouen was knighted, by his future father in law, Henry I Beauclerc, Godfrey Plantagenet. Suspended during the ceremony on the neck of a young knight shield blue decorated six golden lions, is recognized by most of the heralds, for the first time in history, fully formed coat of arms.

We are curious about your opinion about this idea, as well as to the choice of this, in our opinion, appropriate and universal date. Or maybe there are other suggestions?


I’m curious about what folks think. We could whip together some memes for distribution by heraldry enthusiasts via social media.

 
Brad Smith
 
Avatar
 
 
Brad Smith
Total Posts:  182
Joined  12-02-2009
 
 
 
24 April 2013 14:35
 

Sounds good.  Any way I can help?

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
Avatar
 
 
Kenneth Mansfield
Total Posts:  2518
Joined  04-06-2007
 
 
 
24 April 2013 14:49
 

Many governors will make proclamations for non-controversial issues without batting an eyelash and will simply sign the language that you put forward (in fact it’s up to you to provide the language - they only approve it). Often there is even a form right on their websites where you simply plug in the information (name, date, language, etc.).

Perhaps the thing to do would be to collectively come up with proclamation language with all the appropriate whereas clauses and various members of the heraldic community can then submit them to their respective governors. People might also write to their members of Congress to try to get a resolution passed in the two legislative bodies. The goal would be to snowball it.

 

If other people in other countries do this, too, eventually it becomes International Heraldry Day.

 

ETA: Given that the North Carolina Senate has a coat of arms devised by the College of Arms, it might be pretty easy to get a resolution passed in that state house. (Hint, hint, David Pope)

 
 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
Avatar
 
 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
Total Posts:  789
Joined  20-06-2008
 
 
 
24 April 2013 15:03
 

Do we even need a government sanction? I mean - I see the value in that - but as first steps, I’m wondering if this is something we can promote ourselves as either the American Heraldry Society (in partnership with the Polish group and/or IAAH ... or solo) or as a group of independent heraldry enthusiasts.

 
James Dempster
 
Avatar
 
 
James Dempster
Total Posts:  602
Joined  20-05-2004
 
 
 
24 April 2013 15:18
 

March 31st - International Hug A Medievalist Day (of which I thorougly approve, being a medievalist by training if not current profession) seems to be gaining ground just through Facebook pretty mich alone. It’s now in its 3rd year. Whilst US state legislatures may pass resolutions about state whatnots and days I can’t really see that route having much traction in Europe.

James

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
Avatar
 
 
Kenneth Mansfield
Total Posts:  2518
Joined  04-06-2007
 
 
 
24 April 2013 15:48
 

Jeremy Keith Hammond;98628 wrote:

Do we even need a government sanction?


Of course not, but consider Tartan Day as an example here in the states. I think the fact that the US Senate and the US House of Representatives both passed resolutions has given it more credence as National Tartan Day.

 

The idea of something like facebook to promote it is a good one assuming that there is a consensus and concerted effort in promoting it. Think of all the really bad heraldry put forth by online registries and then think about who might put what out there. Yuck.

 
 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
Avatar
 
 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
Total Posts:  789
Joined  20-06-2008
 
 
 
24 April 2013 16:20
 

Kenneth Mansfield;98630 wrote:

The idea of something like facebook to promote it is a good one assuming that there is a consensus and concerted effort in promoting it.


In my experience, getting a consensus and action from heraldry enthusiasts is pretty tough. wink

 

To get this off the ground in time for June 10, at least one heraldic society/group would need to vote very soon on adoption/proclamation - or it would have to be initiated by a small group of volunteers as individuals, with adoption from relevant groups after the fact.

 

Granted, my hunch is tainted by participating in failed attempts to get boards of both AHS and IAAH to take action on other things, but I feel the second route is the most likely to be successful. (And to be clear, since tone is so challenging to communicate by text, I’m not complaining, lol…)

 

What I may do - because I find this project to be really interesting - AND assuming there is no uproarious protest… I might reach out to Tomasz (as the originator of the idea of a June 10 holiday) and seek his blessing to move forward in promoting this. I would, of course, welcome any and all assistance and would especially bow to a higher authority if one stepped up.

 
James Dempster
 
Avatar
 
 
James Dempster
Total Posts:  602
Joined  20-05-2004
 
 
 
24 April 2013 16:25
 

Kenneth Mansfield;98630 wrote:

Of course not, but consider Tartan Day as an example here in the states. I think the fact that the US Senate and the US House of Representatives both passed resolutions has given it more credence as National Tartan Day.


What is Tartan Day? It’s a bit of American Brigadoonerie. OK so it has been latched onto by the Scottish Tourist Board and some politicians but both are orgaanisms known to latch on to things like leeches. I doubt that 1% of Scots could tell you when it was.

 

As a bit of fun celebrating the subject in all sorts of ways from the serious to the wacky, I like the idea, as something po-faced that involves legislatures of any kind and official sanction and credence, no. That’s a first class recipe for the self appointed guardians of how it *should* be done to stick their many oars in and you just suck all the fun out of it.

 

Declare the day and then let people get on with it, however they want.

 

James

 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
Avatar
 
 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
Total Posts:  789
Joined  20-06-2008
 
 
 
24 April 2013 16:27
 

James Dempster;98632 wrote:

As a bit of fun celebrating the subject in all sorts of ways from the serious to the wacky, I like the idea, as something po-faced that involves legislatures of any kind and official sanction and credence, no. That’s a first class recipe for the self appointed guardians of how it *should* be done to stick their many oars in and you just suck all the fun out of it.

Declare the day and then let people get on with it, however they want.

 

James


I’m even more tempted to move forward on this… smile

 
James Dempster
 
Avatar
 
 
James Dempster
Total Posts:  602
Joined  20-05-2004
 
 
 
24 April 2013 16:41
 

Jeremy Keith Hammond;98633 wrote:

I’m even more tempted to move forward on this… wink

James

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
Avatar
 
 
Kenneth Mansfield
Total Posts:  2518
Joined  04-06-2007
 
 
 
24 April 2013 17:29
 

Good points, James. Unfortunately, and contrary to our best efforts, heraldry suffers from its own sort of Brigadoonerie over here. I’m afraid an "unofficial" Heraldry Day will be taken about as seriously as Talk Like a Prate Day which is fun, but certainly won’t do any good to heraldry and will probably put it further in the fantasy, Renn-faire category.

 
 
David Pope
 
Avatar
 
 
David Pope
Total Posts:  559
Joined  17-09-2010
 
 
 
24 April 2013 17:33
 

James Dempster;98632 wrote:

What is Tartan Day? It’s a bit of American Brigadoonerie.

 


Easy, there…Brigadoonery is an bona fide American tradition!  wink

 
David Pope
 
Avatar
 
 
David Pope
Total Posts:  559
Joined  17-09-2010
 
 
 
24 April 2013 17:37
 

Kenneth Mansfield;98627 wrote:

Many governors will make proclamations for non-controversial issues without batting an eyelash and will simply sign the language that you put forward (in fact it’s up to you to provide the language - they only approve it). Often there is even a form right on their websites where you simply plug in the information (name, date, language, etc.).

Perhaps the thing to do would be to collectively come up with proclamation language with all the appropriate whereas clauses and various members of the heraldic community can then submit them to their respective governors. People might also write to their members of Congress to try to get a resolution passed in the two legislative bodies. The goal would be to snowball it.

 

If other people in other countries do this, too, eventually it becomes International Heraldry Day.

 

ETA: Given that the North Carolina Senate has a coat of arms devised by the College of Arms, it might be pretty easy to get a resolution passed in that state house. (Hint, hint, David Pope)


I’d be happy to present such a resolution to our governor, but think it best that we all use the same language.  If there is federal support of it, though,  he’ll probably go the other way out of mere principle.

 

Hmmm.  Perhaps I should submit a resolution that "re-establishes" the Office of the Carolina Herald as the official heraldic registration body in North Carolina…

 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
Avatar
 
 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
Total Posts:  789
Joined  20-06-2008
 
 
 
24 April 2013 18:06
 

Kenneth Mansfield;98635 wrote:

Good points, James. Unfortunately, and contrary to our best efforts, heraldry suffers from its own sort of Brigadoonerie over here. I’m afraid an "unofficial" Heraldry Day will be taken about as seriously as Talk Like a Prate Day which is fun, but certainly won’t do any good to heraldry and will probably put it further in the fantasy, Renn-faire category.


I see an inherent conflict in enjoying, promoting and celebrating heraldry - and taking heraldry seriously. There seems little point in establishing a "day of heraldry" if it has to be taken seriously.

 

There must be some middle ground between the professional, serious academic pursuit of heraldry, and the tacky employment of heraldry by renn-faires and bucketshops…. some place where the "serious" and "official" can relax and enjoy themselves ... right?

 
Joseph McMillan
 
Avatar
 
 
Joseph McMillan
Total Posts:  7658
Joined  08-06-2004
 
 
 
24 April 2013 19:51
 

I’m not sure that modern historians of heraldry accept Tomasz’s premise as to the birthday of heraldry, do they?

 
Benjamin Thornton
 
Avatar
 
 
Benjamin Thornton
Total Posts:  449
Joined  04-09-2009
 
 
 
24 April 2013 21:10
 

Joe, this prompted me to read a bit more on the subject. There’s a summary of Michel Pastoreau’s thoughts on the subject here https://sites.google.com/site/caroluschess/heraldy/origin-of-heraldry.

Of course, celebratory dates need not be historically accurate (the Fourth of July, Christmas, e.g). I realize you’re not quibbling about the date of Geoffrey of Anjou’s knighting, but rather its significance in the history of heraldry.

 

If there’s value a commemoration of heraldry, would you suggest an alternative date for Heraldry Day?