Armorial Generale (Hozier)

 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
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Jeremy Keith Hammond
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10 July 2013 13:26
 

It’s there a way to look up arms in this armorial online? Or does it only exist in print? I haven’t had much luck trying to find it.

Alternatively - are there any other online historical french armorials?

 

EDIT- Scratch that! I did find this, which is sort of helpful:

http://www.euraldic.com/lasuite/blas_hu1.html

 

I’m helping a friend with some heraldic genealogy. His ancestors were French and went by the name Hus… so I’m trying to identify a specific armiger with than name and see if it’s an ancestor of his. I did find at the link above this:

 

Hus (de): De gueules, à la bande d’argent, ch. de trois coquilles de sable.

 

Or in English: Gules, on a bend Argent three escallops Sable.

 

However there’s no more details about the armiger other than the name Hus. Any guidance on next steps?

 
Arthur Radburn
 
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Arthur Radburn
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10 July 2013 14:44
 

Jeremy Keith Hammond;99813 wrote:

It’s there a way to look up arms in this armorial online? Or does it only exist in print? I haven’t had much luck trying to find it.

Alternatively - are there any other online historical french armorials?

 

EDIT- Scratch that! I did find this, which is sort of helpful:

http://www.euraldic.com/lasuite/blas_hu1.html

 

I’m helping a friend with some heraldic genealogy. His ancestors were French and went by the name Hus… so I’m trying to identify a specific armiger with than name and see if it’s an ancestor of his. I did find at the link above this:

 

Hus (de): De gueules, à la bande d’argent, ch. de trois coquilles de sable.

 

Or in English: Gules, on a bend Argent three escallops Sable.

 

However there’s no more details about the armiger other than the name Hus. Any guidance on next steps?

From Euraldica, you can go to their source, as indicated by the reference number at the beginning of the entry.  A040 is Rietstap’s Armorial General, which is available online at

http://books.google.co.za/books?id=KGwv4BDnlaQC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false . Watermarked illustrations can be found at http://www.genealogie.com/v2/services-blasons/default.asp .

Hozier’s official AG de France is available online, but it’s cumbersome as it consists of 32 volumes, each covering a region.  There’s a useful list of the volumes, with links, on the French Wikipedia :

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armorial_général_de_France .

 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
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Jeremy Keith Hammond
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10 July 2013 15:01
 

Arthur Radburn;99815 wrote:

From Euraldica, you can go to their source, as indicated by the reference number at the beginning of the entry.  A040 is Rietstap’s Armorial General, which is available online at

http://books.google.co.za/books?id=KGwv4BDnlaQC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false . Watermarked illustrations can be found at http://www.genealogie.com/v2/services-blasons/default.asp .


Rietstap doesn’t appear to have any information about the armiger - other than that whoever de Hus is, he lived in the Franche-Compte region. Which is big. Around 1696.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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10 July 2013 16:27
 

Jeremy Keith Hammond;99813 wrote:

It’s there a way to look up arms in this armorial online? Or does it only exist in print? I haven’t had much luck trying to find it.


The original manuscript version as well as various published editions and indices are available from the French National Library via http://gallica.bnf.fr.

 

Among the collections are the volumes of alphabetical indices (Indicateur du Grand armorial general de France). But I’m not finding any family named (de) Hus in the indices. The manuscript volume for Franche-Comte (the county of Burgundy and generality of Besancon) is at http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k1114634. You can flip through the images of the pages, of which there are some 471. This document gives exact names of people, where they lived, and their status, profession, or occupation.

 
StarScepter
 
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StarScepter
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11 July 2013 04:16
 

Don’t know if this will help, and if it’s searchable the process is not very intuitive. My French is pretty much nonexistent. Here’s the link for what it’s worth http://www.heraldique-europeenne.org/Accueil.htm .

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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11 July 2013 09:55
 

StarScepter;99820 wrote:

Don’t know if this will help, and if it’s searchable the process is not very intuitive. My French is pretty much nonexistent. Here’s the link for what it’s worth http://www.heraldique-europeenne.org/Accueil.htm .


This site is very nice but probably won’t be of much use for the present purpose.  It’s a combination of armorials that the author has put together on various categories of famous people and places (e.g., knights of various historic orders, doges of Venice, people for whom Paris streets are named) and of the entries in several medieval rolls of arms.  There are indices, including a general index www.heraldique-europeene.org/Index_General/index.html, an index of the famous people whose arms are on the site www.heraldique-europeene.org/Celebres/index.html, and indices for each of the medieval rolls, www.heraldique-europeene.org/Armoriaux/index.html.

 

I’m not finding Hus in any of them, although I may have missed something.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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11 July 2013 10:02
 

The printed index to the D’Hozier Armorial General de France is on Google books.  The page that would have de Hus is http://books.google.am/books?id=cLRLAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA19.  It might be worth looking through this for alternative spellings of the name.  For instance, there’s a "de Huz" listed as appearing in the volume for Lorraine.

 
Arthur Radburn
 
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11 July 2013 11:46
 

Taking up Joseph’s suggestion of alternative spellings : there’s an image of the arms under the name De HEU on Wikimedia Commons :

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Armoiries_de_Heu_1.svg . The source is given as an armorial of Luxembourg.

The blazon appears under the name of Jean de Heu, who was a Bishop of Metz (in Alsace-Lorraine) in http://books.google.co.za/books?id=FLcTAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA461&lpg=PA461&dq=“de+heu”+“bande+d’argent”&source=bl&ots=mqj8oPcJnI&sig=IXJuLQsSJQfTAuDl7SJVaQQc1hA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RdHeUbqMBsLT7AbQ84GYAQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=“de heu”+“bande d’argent”&f=false .

 

Something else about Jean de Heu and his family at http://www.ars-laquenexy.fr/histoire-chateau/famille-chaverson.htm .l

 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
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11 July 2013 17:28
 

Wow! This is a great start. I believe my friend has a family member who has done some substantial genealogy work. His last name is actually Paulhus, but I’m fairly certain that the name was changed from Hus to Paulhus at one point by a French-Canadian ancestor - if I recall correctly, that is.

I found this as well, which may go into the origin of the design. I haven’t taken the time to vet it yet, though: http://www.ennery57.fr/page32.html

 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
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11 July 2013 17:38
 

I’m confused on the inheritance etiquette. If my friend was successful finding he descends from these Hus’ and Heu’s, would that entitle him to these arms? Or due to the significant name evolution, would it be more advisable for him to design a differenced version?

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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12 July 2013 03:23
 

Jeremy Keith Hammond;99832 wrote:

Wow! This is a great start. I believe my friend has a family member who has done some substantial genealogy work. His last name is actually Paulhus, but I’m fairly certain that the name was changed from Hus to Paulhus at one point by a French-Canadian ancestor - if I recall correctly, that is.


Is this the family concerned:  http://www.geni.com/people/Paul-Hus-dit-Millet/6000000006853389954?  Paul Hus dit Millet (1645-1734), born in Normandy, died in French Canada.  It appears to be well-documented and shows a couple of this man’s sons using the hyphenated surname Paul-Hus, which could logically morph over time into Paulhus.

 

If so, and if the ancestor was the legitimate male line descendant of someone who bore arms, then I would say your friend is totally entitled to them.  But I’d want to be sure of my evidence when connecting a man born in Normandy in the 17th century with a Burgundian family more than 300 miles away, or one from Lorraine about the same distance away.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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12 July 2013 06:27
 

Generally speaking (though we do it often enough!) starting with an historical armiger & working down to see if your friend is a descendant entitled to those arms, is backwards—the better approach is to work back from now as far back as possibly & then see if there are historical arms used by that line.  If there are no arms in the line, which is common enough, your friend at least will have a proven ancestral line (and can consider designing & adopting new arms appropriate for that line.  The other approach—starting with an armigerous "then" and working down to now, hoping for a link—will quite likely come up dry, & after all that research your friend will know no more about his actual ancestors than he does now.

(This isn’t an original observation, nor is it limited to possible armorial ancestors—it’s a commonplace among genealogists, and just as applicable to those seeking a link to any prominent or notable historical figure—e.g. someone who landed at Plymouth Rock, or fought in the Revolution, or founded a town, or invented something interesting etc.)

 

Of course tracing old arms & modern descendants can an interesting historical exercise, it just isn’t generally a "best practice" in the context of tracing one’s genealogy.

 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
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12 July 2013 07:57
 

Michael F. McCartney;99841 wrote:

... the better approach is to work back from now as far back as possibly & then see if there are historical arms used by that line.


I agree! In fact, we’re doing both for the fun of it. We’ve really JUST begun looking at his genealogy with an eye for heraldry and he’s just informed me his family has successfully tracked his line to a man named Leonard Hus born in Rouen, Normandie in 1620. Not a bad start.

 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
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12 July 2013 08:01
 

Joseph McMillan;99840 wrote:

Is this the family concerned:  http://www.geni.com/people/Paul-Hus-dit-Millet/6000000006853389954?  Paul Hus dit Millet (1645-1734), born in Normandy, died in French Canada.  It appears to be well-documented and shows a couple of this man’s sons using the hyphenated surname Paul-Hus, which could logically morph over time into Paulhus.


VERY possible. I will ask.

 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
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12 July 2013 08:19
 

Briefly - I’d like to share I’m getting some help from a french forum dedicated to heraldry as well: Le Temps des Herauts. ("The Time of Heralds," I think).

Here’s their badge/arms/logo which I think is kind of nifty:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22086031/header10.png

 
ninest123
 
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09 October 2018 23:29