Ok. I feel that there should be a somewhat nod to my mexican background, so I added a sinister(?) hand grasping a mexican flag:

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/4264/stevecoamexfl2.jpg

Here is the original design:

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/810/stevecoanb0.jpg

Whatcha think? Any comments, critisiosms, emblazonnments are welcome. or any way I can add a smaller symbol that would acknowledge the heretage?

The sheild is untouched out of respect to Louis(jongr90) who emblazoned it.

Steve, I’m not sure I like the second part of the crest. But, it may grow on me. I’m not sure exactly what might be a typical ‘Mexican’ charge to put in its place, but an eagle, as in the flag of Mexico, comes to mind. However, the flag is OK, as there are lots of cases of flags being held by hands in crests in the many heraldic books out there. I’m just not sure I like the Christian monogram and the Mexican flag together. It kind of looks like a little too much. Maybe I’m wrong though…we’ll see what others say.

I agree with Denny.  First off, it looks like you’re choking our Lord.  The Mexican flag is (to me) as inappropriate as me or Denny incorporating the Irish tricolor, or some American of Scots descent waiving the St. Andrew’s flag.

You could try to merge two ideas into one motif.  Perhaps something that is identified as Mexican—but not used in pagan ritual (e.g., Aztec human sacrifice).  Perhaps a green prickly pear cactus with the Jesus cypher IHS in gold, the Virgin of Guadaloupe ...

or ....

an eagle heiroglyph with IHS on its chest instead of the swirl?

http://cfa.sdsu.edu/frame_files/main_images/EAGLE2.GIF

What are some traditional Mexican motifs (serious, fellas: no jokes about the Frito Bandito, sombreros, or tequila).

—Guy

I’m not sure why you feel you need to include a "nod" to your Mexican background.  Your shield already shows a lot of Hispanic/Spanish influence (charged bordure, wolf, purpure (morado), etc.).  It could be emblazoned in a bit more of a hispanic style (e.g., round bottomed shield, closed armet instead of tilting helm, more ornate mantling).  You may want to not use a crest at all—crests are far from mandatory in the Hispanic heraldic tradition—or just use a cluster of feather plumes in the main colors of the arms themselves.  Remember, it’s a coat of arms, not an autobiography, so you’ll want to avoid symbolic overload.

Or you could repeat the wolf in demiwolf form, perhaps with him carrying the IHS.  See Claus Berntsen’s arms in the members arms gallery, http://www.heraldrysociety.us/MemberArmPages/membersarms.php?page=Berntsen.  This is a typically German or Scandinavian approach to the crest, but there’s no reason you couldn’t use it if you wanted to.  The Burleigh and Buchanan-Boardman arms in the members pages use the same basic idea of a demi-version of the beast in the shield being used holding something as a crest.

If you really think you need something Mexican as a crest, perhaps the eagle hieroglyph suggested by Guy, even without putting IHS on it, or perhaps some typically Mexican animal or bird.  But in general, I think it’s a bad idea to use overt national symbolism; arms ought to symbolize yourself and your family, not the other 100 million or whatever people who share your ethnicity.

Joe’s idea of a plume of feathers is very Hispanic and a good idea. Try it to see what you think of it.

If you decide you’d rather have something other than that I would experiment with the eagle idea that Guy provided. Try it with IHS and without it to see which one you like. This would be a good way to combine the two and not make it so busy as it is now.

Guy, that is a good question. I for one do not know and I live in a state that has 34% of its population as Hispanic now.

To be honest when I go to the Mexican food markets I see lots, and I mean lots, of chilies painted on the glass, on the bricks facades fo the stores, in the murals, everywhere. They seem to be everywhere. So, other than an eagle, the sun and chilies I’d have no idea what other symbols might imply Mexican nationality. I will ask my best friend Lizzie however, as her parents are from Mexico, but they consider themselves Spanish and not Mexican - don’t ask me why as I don’t understand it either…anyway she or her parents might know some others.

I can say with the handful of Hispanic arms I’ve done (all Mexican-American I believe) the sun has been a favorite charge that they want. But, I really, really should learn more on this as I live in a very Hispanic area now and I really should try to understand the culture more from a heraldic perspective.

Joe, I think your idea of making it a little more personal is a good one. Would you mind posting your arms and explaining them to Steve to help him with that? I think your achievement is a good balance of national (clan) affiliation and personal symbolism (especially the crest). Maybe this will give him a better idea of what you’re talking about.

Guy Power wrote:

or ....

an eagle heiroglyph with IHS on its chest instead of the swirl?

http://cfa.sdsu.edu/frame_files/main_images/EAGLE2.GIF

 

What are some traditional Mexican motifs (serious, fellas: no jokes about the Frito Bandito, sombreros, or tequila).

 

—Guy

I like that one…, the hand, while nice seems a little off balance, like it is about to fall over…

I agree that it already looks fairly hispanic with the bordure and the wolf.  Are you 100% hispanic?  I’m halfsies, so I used the crest to allude to my maternal family.  Maybe you could try something similar.

I just thought of my old girlfriend Nicole from three years ago. She is Mexican-American and is very involved in Aztec Dancing. She was always preoccupied with eagle feathers.

So, since you have one in your arms, why not a circlet of eagle feathers kind of like a lot of the Canadian arms I’ve seen have a crest that has as its base a circlet of roses and or fleur-de-lis etc. Then you could have the IHS rising out of this circlet of eagle feathers.

Just another thought for ya…

Steve, view a plume of feathers as a crest on Member Robert Samuel Blevens at

http://www.heraldrysociety.us/MemberArmPages/membersarms.php?page=Blevens

And though not Canadian, as I mentioned above, here is a great view of a circlet of roses and fleur-de-lis they belong to Geoff Kingman-Sugars

http://www.heraldrysociety.us/MemberArmPages/membersarms.php?page=Kingman-Sugars

and these of Member John Shannon show a great circlet as well

http://www.heraldrysociety.us/MemberArmPages/membersarms.php?page=Shannon

Donnchadh wrote:

Joe, I think your idea of making it a little more personal is a good one. Would you mind posting your arms and explaining them to Steve to help him with that? I think your achievement is a good balance of national (clan) affiliation and personal symbolism (especially the crest). Maybe this will give him a better idea of what you’re talking about.

Sure, although relatively little of my arms is personal to me specifically.

Here are my arms:

http://www.heraldrysociety.us/MemberArmPages/images/McMillan_ahs_l1.jpg

The shield is based on the arms of the chief of Clan MacMillan (this emblazonment by Romilly Squire):

http://www.heraldry-scotland.co.uk/artists/images/large/Romilly1.gif

It is typical of Scottish heraldry that people of the same surname are, for heraldic purposes, treated as if they are related, even if no one can show how. This situation is called "indeterminate cadency" or "indeterminate cadetship." So I made three basic changes to difference my arms from those of the chief: (1) I changed the posture of the lion from rampant to passant; as it turns out, the passant lion is actually characteristic of older MacMillan arms, but I didn’t know that at the time; (2) I "voided" the stars Argent—essentially putting little white stars on top of the blue stars; and (3) I added the wavy blue and white bar in the base.

The symbolism of the changes was:

- The white stars on blue are an allusion to the US flag, without being too obvious.

- The blue and white wavy bar represents Tallassahatchee Creek in eastern Alabama, where my 3xgreat grandfather established the family farm around 1840. There are still a few members of the family living within 10 miles of the old plantation and three generations are buried at the Baptist church that was built on adjacent property belonging to my 3xgreat grandmother’s brother.

- Secondarily, the posture of the lion now can be interpreted as crossing the water, from Scotland to America. This is reinforced by the motto, which means "They who travel over the seas change their skies but not their souls." The lion is still under the same sky (the three stars) as he travels across the water, but the arms are still identifiably MacMillan.

As you can see above, the chief’s crest is a pair of hands holding a Highland broadsword. Most other MacMillan crests that I’ve found are either the same as this or show one or two hands holding an edged weapon of some other kind. So I decided that for mine, I would put in the hand the weapon that was typical of the people who previously occupied the land where my ancestors settled, the Creek Indians. It is an "atassa," the typical war club of those people.

So there’s nothing obviously Scottish in the arms, but anyone versed in heraldry would probably identify it as of Scottish origin, or at least British.

Hope that’s helpful.

Perfect Joe. Thanks.

I hope this helps ya Steve. In this way Joe shows how one can make the arms more personal and heraldically allude to one’s nationality without being so obvious as to the national flag etc. I agree with Joe that this is the best way to do it. But, that’s me.

For the record Mr. Romilly Squire is one of my own top five ‘masters’ of heraldic art with the others being Marco Fopoli, Laurent Granier, Daniel de Bruin and Baz Manning (Baz most especially because he is so diverse in his application of heraldic art and includes it in ‘structural’ elements, which for me is just "my thing").

If you are struggling with what exactly to do with your crest, if you have one, for as the good Father Guy mentions often it is not required and in fact some of the oldest achievements did not have one (according to either Dennys or Boutelle...I can’t remember which now might not be either…), but if you do have one maybe you should check out these masters and see what a master’s artistic touch can give you in the design and then think of if they were to do your arms how would it look. That might help you decide what sort of crest to have if you have one.

thanx guys,

Even my family says it looks too much, and they’re not familiar with Arms, and heraldry. I am prolly a 3rd mexican. The new design somehow seems tacky to me. i dont know why but it does. Ill experiment with the holding of the IHS monogram. I do have an idea of sorts. Either a demi wolf or two hands, or wolf paws holding up the monogram. Thanx again guys, you have been such a help.

Off subject: I mailed in the membership dues in today.

Steve-o,

What do you intend for your motto, "Sit Meus Vires", to mean? Is it "This is My Strength"?  I think "Meus Vires" might be reversed.

I’m not a Latinist by any means, but the grammar looks transposed—.  I recall that during the Consecration at Mass we say (silently) "Deus Meus et Domine Meus" [God my & Lord my]—not "Meus Deus".  Perhaps "Vires Meus Est" ???

I have only found examples of "sit" in the middle of other Latin phrases; so far I haven’t seen "Sit" beginning a sentence.
Quote:

"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur"

Whatever is said in Latin, sounds profound. [lit: whatever Latin said is, profound sounds

And "Lux sit" There is Light [or is this "Let there be light!" ??]

Regards,

—Guy

"Let there be light" is "Fiat lux."  Might "lux sit" mean "there was light," as in "God said, ‘let there be light,’ and there was light"?

Anyway, to Mexicanize the arms, one might Hispanicize the motto.

May I suggest the following for your crest -

"A quetzal proper supporting a sun or charged with the letters ‘IHS’ in gothic script sable."

The quetzal is a beautiful bird with a ‘characteristic’ shape and well-known in ancient Mexican mythology.

One of Joseph’s suggested mottoes would be most appropriate and would ‘tie’ the crest and motto together.

Regards,

Iain Boyd