Possibility for a Spanish Herladic Institution

 
Montferrato
 
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Montferrato
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27 September 2006 02:59
 

There will be soon a heraldic service for those people of Spanish Ancestry living in the former realms of the Spanish Crown. This could be useful for people with a Spanish background, or to people living in territories that belonged in the past to the Spanish Empire. I have been told that people from many countries can apply, and among them, the USA. As California, New Mexico, Colorado, Texas, Louisiana, Florida and some other parts of America were part of the Spanish Crown in a remote past, USA is a country whose nationals will have strong rights to register arms with a Spanish institution.

This will be an international register, welcoming three kinds of people: People from Spanish Ancestry, People living in the former territories of the Spanish Crown, and people with significant ties to these territories.

 

Also people from many other countries will have rights: for example, Italians whose family lives or has a background from the former Kingdom of Naples; Portuguese people, English People from Gibraltar, People from the Philippines, all South America, etc.

 

This institution will register arms, provide protection, and give advice when designing your coat of arms. Also, it could undertake some ancestral research, and it will have some legal back up from Spain.

 

This institution will not grant arms. It will be an international register.

 

There is no regulation in the Spanish national legal System about granting arms. There was in the past a “Cronista Rey de Armas” called Vicente de Cadenas, appointed by Franco, but there are no more now. There is a curious institution in an historic autonomous Spanish region called Galicia with full powers to grant arms in only a few cases, and with very peculiar requirements.

 

I hope you find this useful.

 
Mark Olivo
 
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Mark Olivo
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27 September 2006 11:48
 

I hope you will keep us posted on this.

Knowing how fast governments generally move, I fear that "soon" may be several years.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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27 September 2006 12:42
 

Keep us posted on the progress please. Great to know.

 
Montferrato
 
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Montferrato
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27 September 2006 15:12
 

Yes, i am afraid Mark is right. It can take years to establish a solid institution backed by Spain and the Spanish Crown. The current government of Spain is not interested at all in Heraldry. But there will be some decent private registry, backed by honorable institutions and reliable people. For example, the French Heraldic Council is a very reputable organisation, and it is a indeed a private registry. The Westphalian society is also a good organisation, and it is private too. I know some people trying to organise a "Spanish Imperial College of Arms", or something like that. It can be a good try, and it will be ready soon, giving many opportunities to a lot of people on your side of the world.

In fact, it is ridicoulous, because Spain is a Monarchy, and we do not have regulations about coats of arms( big contradiction). So, the only institutions granting arms in Spain are regional governments, and i only know an institution doing this nowadays. But they do it quietly, because nobody agrees about the legality of this. Some say it is legal, others say it is not. The truth is that there is a queue of applicants for this kind of service given in "Galicia", northwest of Spain. There is a Galician Heraldry Society, without a web page, registered with the ministry of justice, and granting honorific arms. They are strict in some requirements, and register the arms with a Spanish Notary. This gives you inheritable incorporeal rights over your coat of arms as the time goes by. It would be better to be backed by the Spanish Crown, but this is what we have at the moment.

 
Montferrato
 
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Montferrato
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27 September 2006 15:22
 

Yes, i will keep everybody updated, thanks

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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27 September 2006 15:50
 

Montferrato wrote:

In fact, it is ridicoulous, because Spain is a Monarchy, and we do not have regulations about coats of arms( big contradiction).


Luis,

 

I don’t understand why it is a contradiction. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, and the Netherlands are all monarchies, and they have no armorial regulations, except, in some cases, for protection of the arms of noble families. Germany was a monarchy (actually, many little monarchies) and while there were official institutions for granting arms, there was no regulation in the sense of rules prohibiting assumption of arms. The same was true of France for most of its history.

 

But in any case, welcome to the AHS.  I wonder if you can clarify something for me. It is widely reported in the English-language heraldic literature that it is (was?) illegal in Spain to use arms that had not been certified by a cronista. I have been through some on-line compilations of Spanish heraldic legislation (statutes, royal decrees, ordinances, etc.) and can find nothing to support this contention. As best I can figure out, it has never been illegal for anyone in Spain to assume and use arms. The problem is that such assumed arms are always vulnerable to a complaint that they were usurped from someone else unless they have been certified by a cronista. Is that a correct reading, or, if not, what is the present and historical situation?

 

Also, can you take a look at the following section on Spain from our guide to foreign armorial registration for Americans, and let me know if there are any errors I need to correct?  What if anything should be said about what’s going on in Galicia?


Quote:

The oversight of personal heraldry in Spain is entrusted to officials known as cronistas de armas, or "chroniclers of arms." Under a 1951 decree, cronistas who have passed an examination and been certified by the Ministry of Justice are permitted to certify an individual’s right to use a particular coat of arms. As interpreted by various cronistas, such a right may be acquired either by inheritance or by the adoption of a new armorial design. A chronicler’s certification, which is valid only with the countersignature of an official of the Ministry of Justice, reportedly entitles the arms to legal protection under Spanish law, but has no official standing beyond that. Like notaries in civil law jurisdictions, chroniclers are personally responsible for the correctness of acts carried out in the performance of their duties. Under the terms of earlier decrees and regulations, each chronicler is authorized, at his own discretion, to certify arms for anyone living in any place that was ever under the dominion of the Spanish crown.

At the present time, however, it appears that there are no cronistas possessing Ministry of Justice approval to certify personal arms, the last holder of that title having died in December 2005. Don Alfonso de Ceballos-Escalera y Gila, Marqués de La Floresta, who was appointed Cronista de Armas de Castilla y León by the regional government of Castile and Leon in 1991, has issued certifications of personal arms in the past, but the Spanish Council of State ruled in 1995 that his authority extended only to the area of provincial and municipal heraldry within the Autonomous Community of Castile and Leon, and that his certifications of personal arms were invalid. It is not clear whether Don Alfonso is still issuing personal certifications or, if so, under what authority. We would be grateful for any firm evidence on this matter.

 

It has been asserted that it is unlawful to bear arms in Spain without a chronicler’s certification, but we have been unable to find any legal text supporting that view. In addition, some Spanish heraldists maintain that it is possible to establish title to newly devised arms in Spain by executing a notarial act before witnesses. Again, we have no basis on which to confirm or refute this view.


Thanks

 
Montferrato
 
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Montferrato
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27 September 2006 17:20
 

Sorry, i posted a new thread instead of answering you.

I will try to answer your questions now.

1. Alfonso Ceballos-Escalera has no authority whatsoever to issue personal certifications.

2. It is lawful indeed to bear arms in Spain, as there is no legislation against this.

 

This Galician society is doing nothing wrong from an strictly legal point of view(I quite support the attitude of the Galician society). They just use a legal procedure to get a coat of arms registered. But the cronistas or pretended cronistas are angry because they think they have the exclusive privilege of issuing arms. But this is nonsense as there are not Cronistas anymore, at least for now. Basically, the business is as follows: If you hear from someone pretending to be a Cronista, he is an impostor, and he will try to sell you a very beautiful piece of paper at an exorbitant price. Don Vicente de Cadenas(last official Cronista) died a year ago, and no one holds this dignity currently. Some regional advisers in heraldry have tried to "take over" the vacancy, with no success. In fact, they do for you the same procedure i described in the other article. The only difference is that the document has the signature(invalid now, but beautiful) of a supposed Cronista.

 

The best proof of this is that hundreds of people are registering their coats of arms in this way, and being entitled to legal protection under the Spanish Law. They just do it quietly, because some traditional people say it is not right and according to the tradition to register arms this way. But it is indeed.

 

The cronistas hate this way(the notary way) because it is unorthodox and non traditional, but it is indeed lawful. This is the motive of the argument. It is just a matter of greed. To put it bluntly, the "cronistas party" see that "they have to share the cake, and they do not want to". That is the reason why they question the procedures of the people who get registered coats of arms in other way.

 

If you are able to read Spanish, or have someone who you trust able to read spanish, i could send you a legal reasoning, quoting laws, and showing printed copies of the sources.