I would appreciate any assistance translating this Blazon for Famile Deppler. Thanks
Ben
Wappen
Ein frontaler Schild in Schildhaupt geteilt,darinn in goldenem Feld ein silbern befadeter roter Pfahl,belegt mit einem "schreitenden" Schwan.
Unten in silbernem Feld eine blaue doppeltuermige Burg aus Schildteilung drei blaue gesturzte Spitzen, jede belegt mit einer goldenen Lilie.
Helm
Ein frontales Stechhelm,metallfarben,mit geschlossenem Vissier.
Helmzier
Aus einem blau silber rot goldenen Banner ein offener Adlerflug in der Mitte geteilt in den Farben blau-silber (rechts) und ro-gold (links),beide belegt mit einer Feder(rechts gold,links silber)
Decken
In den Farben blau-silber (rechts) und rot-gold (links) eine gotische Wappenzier (Decken) den Schild und Helm einfassend.
I’ll take a hack at it but my German knowledge doesn’t normally extend to Heraldry… but, this is what I came up with for the shield… I’ll try some more on the rest of the blazon…
Wappen
Ein frontaler Schild in Schildhaupt geteilt,darinn in goldenem Feld ein silbern befadeter roter Pfahl,belegt mit einem "schreitenden" Schwan.
Unten in silbernem Feld eine blaue doppeltuermige Burg aus Schildteilung drei blaue gesturzte Spitzen, jede belegt mit einer goldenen Lilie
Coat of Arms
Argent a two-towered town (or castle) Azure, on a chief Or, divided by "three fallen points (?)" each changed with a lily, a Pale Argent befadeter (fimbrated ?) Gules charged with a "walking" swan.
As for the shield I’d have a guess, i.e.
Argent three piles Azure each charged with a fleur–de–lys Or a two-towered castle Gold on a chief of the third on a pale Gules between two pallets a swan of the first.
(The German structure of a blazon is VERY different from English….that makes it somewhat confusing… hopefully I got all the tinctures right, let alone the correct wording…)
It appears that there are some, er, clerical errors as for the features of the crest….. A picture would be very welcome…..
Kind regards
Jochen
Thanks to all! This is a version of the Wappen used by a branch of the family that resides in Tegerfelden, Switzerland.
http://www.deppeler.org/genealogy/crest_pic_18.jpg
My branch of the family hales from Schwaben. The differences in the arms being a swan in place of a duck, and a different crest.
I would also like to run another question by the group regarding quarterning of arms originating from different countries/traditions.
Through my paternal line, I can establish descent from Richard Foster, son of Sir Robert Forster, who immigrated to Virginia in 1635. The arms of this branch of the Forster/Foster family are well established. However, I would like to place certain differnence marks on the shield of arms that are different from the traditional marks of cadency. One thought I had was to use an arrow fessways or, in place of the chevron vert, and to change to color of the field from argent to gules. The arrow is taken from the arms of William Gerrish, from whom I can establish descent through my great grandmother, who would be considered a heraldic heiress.
My mother is a German citizen, and is her father’s only child. The Deppler Familienwappen is described above. Is it then proper to quarter these arms? Note that a Familienwappen is used by a family, and is not simply individual property as in British heraldry. Any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Ben
Mr. McMillan, if you please.
I’m sorry, but I’m confused… you are certain of relation to Sir Foster mentioned above, correct? To what extent? By that I mean to say how many direct male lines are above you?
The reason I ask is that if there is a direct link and there are not many male descendents above your line why would you alter his arms so drastically?
Unless of course you are of a male line that has many male lines above it in relation to the family tree - hence my questions.
Donnchadh wrote:
I’m sorry, but I’m confused… you are certain of relation to Sir Foster mentioned above, correct? To what extent? By that I mean to say how many direct male lines are above you?
The reason I ask is that if there is a direct link and there are not many male descendents above your line why would you alter his arms so drastically?
Unless of course you are of a male line that has many male lines above it in relation to the family tree - hence my questions.
Certainly a legitimate question…I am about as certain as I can be from a geneological perspective. See Foster, Dr. B.G. The Foster Family of Flanders, England and America. Insite Publishing Company, Bryan, Texas, 1990. (This has also been established with a high degree of certainty by recent Y DNA testing of others tracing their line to Richard.)
Richard came to Virginia in 1635, and his line produced many male heirs. Also, the use of the coat of arms by his descendants has been by no means continuous in this country.
OK… that’s cool… but why would you want to change them so drastically then? Or am I missing something?
Donnchadh wrote:
OK… that’s cool… but why would you want to change them so drastically then? Or am I missing something?
Several reason: 1) It would be difficult if not impossible to establish how the standard marks of cadency would be used given the sheer number of male heirs in subsequent generations, and the incomplete records for certain generations (how many sons, etc.); 2) I am certain that my line is not the first house; 3) It is my understanding that reversing the color of the field was common in the Colonies to distinguish arms from those of family members that remained in England; 4) As an aesthetic and personal matter I am partial to the arrow fessways or, and I could not think of a way to make this work with a chevron vert, unless the arrow was very small….any suggestions would be appreciated, however.
Denny wrote:
...but why would you want to change them so drastically then? Or am I missing something?
Ben Foster wrote:
Several reason: 1) It would be difficult if not impossible to establish how the standard marks of cadency would be used given the sheer number of male heirs in subsequent generations, and the incomplete records for certain generations (how many sons, etc.); 2) I am certain that my line is not the first house; 3) It is my understanding that reversing the color of the field was common in the Colonies to distinguish arms from those of family members that remained in England; 4) As an aesthetic and personal matter I am partial to the arrow fessways or, and I could not think of a way to make this work with a chevron vert, unless the arrow was very small….any suggestions would be appreciated, however.
Ben,
I think your case is what the Scots call "indeterminate cadency"—you know for certain that you are related to the head of the house; you just don’t know what your exact relationship is. Therefore, the changes you suggest are appropriate—they allude to the Foster coat of arms with enough of a change to show that though related, you are not claiming direct lineage.
Regards,
Guy
One option would be to quarter your father’s arms with your mother’s. By so doing you would essentially be distinguishing the arms. Quartering has a history of having been used as a form of arms differentiation.
This is one option I am considering at this point. Comments would be greatly appreciated.
I like it…...ESPECIALLY the motto. Did your grandfather serve in an elite German force during WWII?
—Guy
Guy Power wrote:
I like it…...ESPECIALLY the motto. Did your grandfather serve in an elite German force during WWII?
—Guy
Thanks…not the one you may be thinking of, however.
My grandfather flew with Jagdgeschwader 6.
My great grandfather was also commander of the horse police in Ulm. The family has a fairly long history of public service in Schwaben. I think that the schwan may be a bit of word play on "Schwaben". The motto is Swiss in origin, however.
Ben,
I really like your design and choice of difference, etc. Are the pales with the swan in your maternal arms fimbriated? The design you posted with the quartered arms seems to show them fimbriated Argent. I also have a question regarding the sinister crest - Is that your design? Should the dexter mantling be Gules doubled Argent and the sinister mantling be Azure doubled Argent? And finally, shouldn’t the sinister wreath be Argent and Azure?
Great job, overall.
Cheers,
Hassan
