Add to Cassique John Ashby’s "Yadhow Barony", "Quinby Barony". Does anyone know more about him, Ashby? Also, are these the same John Ashby’s Baronies?
My Langrave Sir Edm. Bellinger, Sr., Surv-Gen and Atty-Gen of South Carolina; was master of the vessell "Blake" which brought the first load of cattle to South Carolina. Edmund worked for the Landgraves Blakes.
What initials or letters would then preceed the name of a late 1600’s English civil vessel? Like today we still use "S.S." (for "steam ship", which most no longer, are) for American civil vessels. And "U.S.S." and "U.S.N.S." for U.S. Navy and naval vessels. The Japanese, I think use "Maru" (spelling?). It would in the late 1600’s not be "S.S. Blake"; but what would it correctly then be?
To partly answer my own question: elsewhere in this forum, some capable researcher posted an old drawing of the Landgraves (male), Landgravines (female), and Cassiques (male) in their "creation" robes/vestments. No female Cassique was illustrated, nor mentioned; thus it would appear by an absence of evidence to the contrary, that the office and roll of female Cassique neither existed in reality, nor in theoretical contemplation? But such raises the logical question: why female Langravines, but not female "Cassiquevines" ?
... why female Langravines, but not female "Cassiquevines" ?
Possibly because the system was so short lived that the concept was not fully developed into a practical system.
More about John Ashby: he married Constantina Broughton, sister of Thomas Broughton (my ancestor).
Thomas Broughton was married about 1683 to Anne Johnson, daughter of Sir Nathaniel Johnson of Silk Hope. It is thought that they were married in England and were related: He had relatives who remained in England, but his sister Constantia married the second Cassique John Ashby of Quenby Plantation, and their daughter married Gabriel Manigault, reputed to have been one of the wealthiest men of that day in Carolina.
[4th para at] http://www.rootsweb.com/~scbchs/mulberry.htm
2. John Ashby, born May 10, 1675 in Friday Street, London, England; died March 24,
1727/28 in Charleston, South Carolina. He was the son of 4. John Ashby and 5. Elizabeth
Thorowgood. He married 3. Constantina Broughton Bef. 1694.
3. Constantina Broughton, died January 20, 1719/20 in Charleston, South Carolina.
Notes for John Ashby:
Accompanied his father on voyages to the West indies and America while still a child and took up residence in South Carolina by 1692 at the age of sixteen. He maintained a town house in Charleston. After inheriting the South Carolina "Quenby" Plantation from his father he grew rice on the plantation and continued his merchant activities with the West Indies. By 1705 he was holding 5,140 acres of land.
Children of John Ashby and Constantina Broughton are:
1 i. Thomas Ashby, born 1694 in Charelston, South Carolina; died in SC; married Elizabeth LeJeau 1713 in South Carolina.
ii. Robert Ashby, born Abt. 1695.
iii. Anne Ashby, born Abt. 1700; married Gabriel Manigault.
Children of John Ashby and Elizabeth Ball are:
i. John Ashby, born 1727.
ii. Elizabeth Ashby, born 1728.
[see Generation 2 at] http://members.aol.com/patander73/ashanc.html
"Yadhow" was the previous Indian name for the area later named Quenby. cf: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=timmychew&id=I032452
Misc: Note: Military Service: Indian Wars
Thomas Ashby of Carolina had Thomas Ashby of Quenby, Carolina, (on the Eastern Branch of the Cooper River, Charleston, S.C., area called Yadhow by the Indians)." These are the first proven Ashbys in America, John settled in the Carolinas, and his son Thomas Ashby named his estate Quenby.
Apparently the name "Quenby" comes from his father’s holding in England, "Quenby Hall". cf: http://awt.ancestrylibrary.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=fletcht2001&id=I12123&ti=5542
Name: George Ashby , Of Quenby Hall
Birth: ABT. 1620 in Quenby Hall, Leistershire, England - London merchant
Death: in business with the Lord Proprietors
And the Leistershire Quenby estates had been in the family since ca 1330. cf Generation 12 at: http://members.aol.com/patander73/ashanc.html
Between 1327 and 1332 William de Ashby
acquired the manor of Quenby. By 1338 the manor made up about 450 acres.
Info re Quenby Plantation in Carolina: http://south-carolina-plantations.com/berkeley/quinby.html
Quenby Plantation Oak Avenue:
Quinby House (moved to Halidon Hill Plantation):
Note: this is a later building that retained the original namesake
The Quinby Plantation House, located on Halidon Hill Plantation, was constructed around the turn of the nineteenth century on the eastern branch of the Cooper River in the lowcountry of South Carolina. It was built either for Roger Pinckney or the Shubrick family
another Ashby genealogy at http://www.e-familytree.net/f983.htm#f217869 . See "John Ashby and Constintina Broughton"
Page 67 of Samuel Gaillard Stoney’s 1938 - 1989 book, "Plantations of the Carolina Low Country", Library of Congress No. 89-16942; in an artical on Pompion Hill Chapel 1763, says "...Silk Hope Plantation of Governor Sir Nathaniel Johnson and Cacique John Ashby’s Quinby Barony". I can no longer remember where "Yadhow Barony" was so termed? Perhaps under the elder John Ashby, it was "Quenby Barony", but later diminished, it became "Quenby Plantation" under the second John Ashby? But as both were labeled Cassiques, perhaps Quenby was a Barony under both? Perhaps Yadhow was a Barony only under the elder John Ashby? But both John Ashby Sr. and Jr. were Cassiques—correct? Was the elder a "Sr" in effect, if not so termed in his time; and the younger a "Jr."? But If John Ashby, Sr’s, father was also a John Ashby; the "Sr." would be incorrect. Do you know who John Ashby, Sr’s father was? I’ve seen "Silk Hope" referred to only as a "Plantation", never as a "Barony". Is this seemingly correct: John Ashby, Sr., Cassique, of Yadhow Barony and Quenby Barony. John Ashby, Jr., Cassique, of Quenby Barony? Were there later Ashby Cassiques or Landgraves? Jim Miller P.S. The book cites H.A.M. Smith’s, 1931 set of books, "The Baronies of South Carolina", Charleston, 1931. I have a later edition: quality! Have I missed from the list, any other Landgraves or Cassiques, or Baronies? Joseph Pendarvis, Esq., say his African-American descendants; was never a Landgrave, nor Cassique. That seems true, but one of Landgrave Edm. Bellinger, Sr’s, female Bellinger descendants wed a Joseph Pendarvis; and via her, their Pendarvis descendants would be Landgrave descendants. More later on that.
Quenby and The Eastern Branch of Cooper River
On the 24th October 1682, the Lords Proprietors of Carolina created Mr. John Ashby a Cassique, to whom the baronies attached to that dignity were to be granted as he required." Prior to this, John Ashby had on April 25, 1681, received a grant of 2,000 acres of land on the Eastern Branch of Cooper River, "at a place called by the Indians Yadhaw," but the Indian name was not kept. This property and subsequent grants were left to his son John, who came to Carolina between 1693 and 1695, upon the provision that he pay 200 pounds sterling to each of his sisters. Two of the grants of property situated on the creek later known as Quenby, together formed the plantation which the father or son named "Quenby" after the family place in England.
I gave you some links previously that had 14 generations of Ashby; you can find John’s father’s name there. Quenby Hall (Leicastershire, England) had been in their family since mid 1300s.
Here’s another: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/Huguenot/1999-12/0945393279
...On April 25, 1681, [the Lords Proprietor] granted him 2,000 acres on the south side of the Eastern Branch of the Cooper River at a place the Indians call "Yadhaw." On June 7, 1682, they authorized their representatives
in Carolina to grant other land up to 3,000 acres, and, in the same year
they made him a Cassique, which entitled hzm to request two baronies...
...in an artical on Pompion Hill Chapel 1763, ...
FYI, it is pronounced "pumpkin" or "punkin"
Writing from "Sir N, Johnson’s Study" in 1705 to the Society in London, Mr. Thomas said, "Here is one church already erected since my arrival by the peculiar direction and religious care of Sir Nathaniel Johnson and at the charge of the parish." Pompion Hill Chapel on the eastern side of the east branch of the Cooper River took its name from the plantation on the river which it adjoined. The local pronunciation is Punkin, or as Judge H. A. M. Smith wrote "the contemporaneous spelling of Pumpkin is Pompion." The plantation was written as Ponkin Hill or Ponkinhill Plantation in some deeds before the name was extended to cover the larger tract of plantation which was aggregated by the Rev. Thomas Hasell. He was the first rector of St. Thomas’ Parish, appointed in 1709 after the creation of the Parish in 1706. He married Elizabeth Ashby, daughter of John Ashby, the Second Cassique of nearby Quinby Barony.
Not good resolution ... but here is a 1696 plantation map by Mr. Sanson of the Charles Towne area. At the top center is the beginning of the Cooper River; you’ll see "Landgrave James Colleton’s Barony" on the east bank, and "Mulberry" [Thomas Broughton’s] on the west bank. "Sr. Nathaniel Johnson" is a bit further south and on the east branch, where you’ll also see the further extent of Colleton’s barony labeled as "Baronie de Colleton" (the map was made by a Frenchman). If I recall—Johnson’s area was originally called "Salton", "Salt Flat", or something having to do with salt farming.
It also looks like "Mr. Ashby’s" plantation is a bit south of Johnson’s.
(The map expands to a larger size.)
Does South Carolina State Archives sell reproductions of the 1696 Baronies / Plantations map? If so, do you know the sales link? Very Good.
Guy: your personal CoA’s shield has a gold bar across it’s top with three "things" pointing down. The illustration of the Landgraves & Cassiques CoA’s has an identical gold bar across the top of it’s shield. Is there an intended connection? Do they mean the same thing? If so, what? Yes, I show my ignorance; alas, I’m good at that.
Focusoninfinity, that charge is called a label. It is a mark of difference used to indicate the arms of the oldest son during his father’s life. When he inherits the title/arms he removes it.
Thank you Mohamed: Does A "label" represent some actual physical thing, such as the mill-stone yoke in heraldry represents the supporter and position retainer for the millstone ")#(" ?
I have two dear Iranian friends, one of them a "Mo". What I don’t understand was the double use of Mohamed in a name, and why sometimes it is spelt differently in the same name; like (spelling?) "Beutrice Bewtrise Golly"? I suspect the use of names may widely very between counties such as Egypt and Iran? I had an American double aunt (we were James kin two different ways) named Mrs. Leila Emily James James. This must look weird to non-English language/customs people. Yes, her husband was kin.
My mother was a Leila too (generations of Leilas to the orginal one, most with the original’s dark black "widow’s-peak" hair. I have six generations of photos of male Millers to me; I have no children, but my sister (a daughter is a Leila too) adds great-grand childre; thus nine generations in photos, starting with John Cyrus Miller, 1811-1893) which I am told means either "Dark as night", or "Born at night"?
LoL: I’m one of the few American Miller’s who were "real" Millers; not in name only. Cyrus Miller’s father, John Henry Miller wed second, the War of 1812 widow, Mrs. Emelia "Milly" Fisher Sossaman (Sossamanhausen) who’s first husband had a colonial mill on Dutch (German) Buffalo Creek, Cabarrus County, North Carolina (three mill stones still there). Henry ran the Sossaman-Miller-Foil mill untill his Sossaman step-children came of age. The Mill was orginally a grist mill, then wool (fulling?) mill; untill the circa 1920’s advent of electricity in the county. The mill’s equipment removed to nearby Mt. Pleasant, and still in business.
Thirty years ago I espied in pencil, written on a wooden hopper, more-or-less: "Today, (date) I just saw (name) fly over the mill. The first man to ever fly over Cabarrus County". A decade ago I went back to get the man’s name to see if the man ever got an FAA license and ever became a known early aviator; but the hopper was now stored in a barn on the owner’s farm. I’m a retired FAA/FCC airline mechanic; shook hands with Capt’n Eddie (Rickenbacker) of Eastern Air Lines (he long retired from banking), and my beloved Piedmont Airlines’ Tom Davis, it’s founder).
Circa colonial days when grain was hand harvested, Cabarrus County, North Carolina was in the center of our "young" nation’s (by my white blood; but NOT by my Kaskaskia Illini Indian blood; a "young" nation) "bread basket". Jim
Oh, but why the "label" on the Landgraves/Cassiques CoA (see displayed elsewhere this forum)?
Oh, but why the "label" on the Landgraves/Cassiques CoA (see displayed elsewhere this forum)?
The Argent shield with two chevrons Sable and lable Azure that are placed upon the "sun in splendor" is meant only as a representational piece. If, for example, *I* was a Landgrave, the shield in my avatar would be placed on the sun in splendor, not the shield with two black chevrons.
...Does A "label" represent some actual physical thing, such as the mill-stone yoke in heraldry represents the supporter and position retainer for the millstone
Generally the label is a painted on. Sometimes you will come across something like the shield below: the funerary shield of Edward the "Black "Prince", who died in 1376. Note the label is separately attached and could have been removed if he survived to be king.
Was the "label" like a black funeral armband, but placed on the shield, and cut away to reveal, and help identify the shield better?