Blazons of Distant Earth

 
SeVincit
 
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SeVincit
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11 January 2007 09:46
 

Nihao to you all. My name is Jean Mathieu, I’m currently working in China, I’m new, and I figured I’d make my first post a bang.

I’m a writer, by avocation, and especially of science fiction. In conversation with other science fiction buffs, we’ve often discussed spacesuits and spacecraft in time of war. In the event of a signal jam, outed communications equipment, or other numerous events impeding electronic identification, how would the men identify one another?

 

The answer, of course, is that the question has come up before: knights in armor are just as unidentifiable as men in spacesuits. And their solution was heraldry. This got me thinking…what kind of heraldry would the Space Force and all the spacers out there *have*? Would the old institutions and laws of heraldry be revived, perhaps shaken out a bit, and applied to the new circumstances? Or would an entirely new heraldric tradition spring up?

 

And of what would that tradition consist? We have, of course, Asimov’s "spaceship-and-sun" of the Galactic Empire, and the crests of Houses Atreides, Harkonnen, and Corrino in Herbert’s Dune books. I’ve experimented a bit this way myself, with the sign of the Militant Space Archaeologists being the "spade-and-sun," but I know there’s plenty of untapped potential there. What symbols and what laws of heraldry do you see being invoked or invented for identifying the other fellow in a spacesuit with a big railgun? Where the blazes to you put a coat of arms if you don’t have a shield? How similar or different would such a system be to the heraldry system we inherited from medieval nobility?

 

And have I *completely* bored you yet?

 
Linusboarder
 
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Linusboarder
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11 January 2007 10:13
 

SeVincit wrote:

And have I *completely* bored you yet?


Absolutly not, this is just the right kind of completely hypothetical situation to start a work day that I love.

 
Chapulin
 
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Chapulin
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11 January 2007 11:39
 

It sounds like your doing research for a book? Great concept!

Joe McMillan would be the one for this hypothetical, but I’m sure he would say tradition should be applied.:wookie:

 
Madalch
 
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Madalch
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11 January 2007 11:57
 

SeVincit wrote:

Nihao to you all. My name is Jean Mathieu, I’m currently working in China, I’m new, and I figured I’d make my first post a bang.

I’m a writer, by avocation, and especially of science fiction. In conversation with other science fiction buffs, we’ve often discussed spacesuits and spacecraft in time of war. In the event of a signal jam, outed communications equipment, or other numerous events impeding electronic identification, how would the men identify one another?


I’ve actually had this discussion before, believe it or not.

 

The idea we came up with was that it’d be best to paint the entire suit, and to keep patterns much more simple and geometrical than one finds in terrestrial heraldry.  A spacesuit is not a flat surface, and trying to paint a lion on it would result in something that looked a mess.  Quarterly of Gules and Argent would work just fine.

 

And one would want to avoid Sable wherever possible, or one would look like a black hole.  The thing about black holes, you see, is that they’re black.  And the thing about space is, you see, it’s also black.  So it’s really hard to see a black hole.

 

(And yes, I know that Red Dwarf is also just a TV show.  You don’t need to tell me to "Get a life".)

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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11 January 2007 12:09
 

Much of the gradual overlay of "rules" and customs would of course have little or no application, but the underlying principles behind them would still apply for purely practical reason.  For example, the "color rule"  and the use of a fairly standard set of well-known images ("ordinaries") and usually a stylized representation of other images (charges) and a limited palette of colors and the artistic convention of "filling the available space" and the design maxim to "keep it simple" and the general practice of favoring armorial banners (essentially rectangular cloth representations of the shield) rather than displaying the whole achievement on a flag—not because they are "rules" but because they all make for greater visibility and visual clarity, and thus better serve the functions of identification and "legibility.".

Must stop for breath…

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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11 January 2007 12:20
 

Chapulin wrote:

Joe McMillan would be the one for this hypothetical…


No, not I, thanks very much.  Never got into the sci-fi mindset, I’m afraid.  Historical fiction’s more up my alley.

 
AVD1
 
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AVD1
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11 January 2007 12:34
 

Very Interesting Premise smile

1. Any rule has its origin in some practical reason. For instance the rule of tinctures. It’s intended to make visually identifiable devices. So under your premise it would be necessary to establish some symbolism for each "kind of being". Carbon based live forms; non carbon based live forms, etc. So it will help for medical reasons and ‘hosting reasons’ (don’t make the carbon units breath sulfur…). Second layer, among each class may be common requirements that should be displayed. Third layer display of each individual allegiance (similar to the Italian costume to display in chief their family allegiance to the empire or france), fourth layer could be personal achievement.

2. Each layer should be graphic and visually identifiable a) shape b) color or combination of colors c) ordinaries d) charges

 

3.      The following link will lead you to a very conterporary herldic designer. Sorry the link is so big and complicated. They are like starving students and are using some free Internet space. I contacted some time ago with them because I wanted something ‘cool’ enough to introduce heraldry to my stepson…

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://hackscript.iespana.es/armaduras-1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://hackscript.iespana.es/hera1.htm&h=321&w=705&sz=33&tbnid=4TFJ6lqN7ssfnM:&tbnh=62&tbnw=138&hl=en&start=247&prev=/images?q=heraldico&start=240&svnum=

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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11 January 2007 14:22
 

Quote:

Historical fiction’s more up my alley.

Joe, did you ever read the book "Killer Angels," by Michael Shaharah (my spelling of his last name may be off).

**OT**

 

GREAT book Joe. I think you’d like it and its an easy read - day or so - only a couple of hundred pages if I remember quickly.

 
Guy Power
 
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Guy Power
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11 January 2007 14:35
 

The USA already uses identification marks on its space suits:

http://images.ksc.nasa.gov/photos/1969/medium/KSC-69PC-0374.jpg

 

Granted .... you have to get within striking distince before you can see them.

 

—Guy

 
J Duncan of Sketraw
 
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J Duncan of Sketraw
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11 January 2007 17:40
 

Guy, whats all the patches for, is it in-case he gets lost in space or abducted by Aliens?

Buz Aldrin, Apollo Astronaut, Nassa, USA

 

Or is it just for the photo shoot.

 
J Duncan of Sketraw
 
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J Duncan of Sketraw
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11 January 2007 17:59
 

By the way Guy I wasn’t trying to be flippant….....I just thought it funny imagining the Apollo astronauts all crammed into a little space capsule with all the patches.

 
Madalch
 
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Madalch
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11 January 2007 18:22
 

J Duncan of Sketraw wrote:

Guy, whats all the patches for, is it in-case he gets lost in space or abducted by Aliens?


It’s so he can tell his spacesuit from everyone else’s suits.

 

There aren’t a lot of people who have spacesuits, and it’s not worth doing a load of laundry with only one of them, so they usually collect everyone’s spacesuits and throw them in together.  Then of course, they need the patches on them so they can sort out NASA’s suits from the Russian suits, and Buzz Aldrin’s from the other NASA suits.

 

This is particularly important becasue the European suits have to be hung to dry, while the American ones can just be put in the drier (as long as the "Permanent Press" setting is used).

 
J Duncan of Sketraw
 
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J Duncan of Sketraw
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11 January 2007 18:34
 

Madalch wrote:

It’s so he can tell his spacesuit from everyone else’s suits.

There aren’t a lot of people who have spacesuits, and it’s not worth doing a load of laundry with only one of them, so they usually collect everyone’s spacesuits and throw them in together. Then of course, they need the patches on them so they can sort out NASA’s suits from the Russian suits, and Buzz Aldrin’s from the other NASA suits.

 

This is particularly important becasue the European suits have to be hung to dry, while the American ones can just be put in the drier (as long as the "Permanent Press" setting is used).


Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 
emrys
 
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emrys
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12 January 2007 03:25
 

Madalch wrote:

And one would want to avoid Sable wherever possible, or one would look like a black hole. The thing about black holes, you see, is that they’re black. And the thing about space is, you see, it’s also black. So it’s really hard to see a black hole.

(And yes, I know that Red Dwarf is also just a TV show. You don’t need to tell me to "Get a life".)


Smegggggggggg so that is what is wrong with me smile