While surfing the forum tonight the History channel was running a program on Dragons.  I just over heard them speaking about the number of claws depicted in Imperial China.  Unless you were the Emporer himself, you were not allowed to wear any depiction of a dragon with 5 claws.  Punishment for that could be death.  Members of the Imperial house were allowed to wear a dragon with 4 claws and members of the upper "nobility" and ministers were allowed dragons with three claws.

That can easily be placed in a heraldic concept, don’t you think?

http://flagspot.net/images/c/cn_1890.gif

The Dragon Flag

Quote:

From Flags of the World Website:

Subj: "Dragon flag" of Qing

From: "Xu, Xiaoqun (David)" (.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address))

 

In May 1889 Zhang Yinhuan, a former official in the Zhonli Yamen and then in charge of the Capital Mineral Affairs and Railroad Bureau (Jingshi kuangwu tielu zongju), proposed to the imperial court to make this a "national flag." The yellow color represented the Manchu and the dragon represented the emperor. The proposal was adopted and the flag began to be used in 1900.

 

Source: Zhongguo Jindai Lishi Cidian (Jiangxi renmin chubanshe, 1986)

 

xiaoqun xu

I recall reading some where that the Korean King used a dragon with a specified number of claws as well.

I have a pic of an old Heraldic Print from the 19th century. I’ll get the china one out of it, and post it.

Regards,

Here is an article on Imperial Chinese civil and military rank badges: http://www.journalofantiques.com/Jan05/featurejan05.htm and an interesting article here: http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/wml/humanworld/discovery/rankbadges/ and a third article here:http://www.spurlock.uiuc.edu/collections/artifact/mandarinsquare.html

*edited by member*

Reader’s note: Before it was edited away, the above post referred to the number of claws used on Vietnamese dragons. My post below was in response to it.

A post card of the young Emperor Duy Than of Vietnam (1907-1916) wearing a robe embroidered with five clawed dragons: http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emperorduythanasachildaj7.jpg

A silver coin from the reign of Emperor Khai Dinh of Vietnam (1916-1925) bearing a five clawed dragon:http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=72tienreignofkhaidinhqx2.jpg

Seal of Emperor Minh Mang (1820-1841) showing four claws in front and one not showing to the rear: http://img352.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sealofemperorminhmanggc7.jpg

Very nice! If you look on the website of the Imperial Order of The Dragon of Annam, they show western style arms with dragons as supporters as well as a "crest" above the European style crown.

As to that seal, it is very nice. I would be interested in seeing the impression made by this seal if it is available.

I am very interested as well in the coin, as I have a large collection of East Asian coins, as well as some other things (mostly items with traditional ornamentation, as well as a few lacquer items).

Cheers,

MohamedHossam wrote:

Very nice! If you look on the website of the Imperial Order of The Dragon of Annam, they show western style arms with dragons as supporters as well as a "crest" above the European style crown.

As to that seal, it is very nice. I would be interested in seeing the impression made by this seal if it is available.

 

I am very interested as well in the coin, as I have a large collection of East Asian coins, as well as some other things (mostly items with traditional ornamentation, as well as a few lacquer items).

 

Cheers,

Information about the Order can apparently be found at http://www.emering.com/orderOfDragon/gMedals.html .