Some idle thoughts concerning a new shield

 
WBHenry
 
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WBHenry
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17 March 2007 18:25
 

Hi, Everett and Phil, where all y’all been?

As for the Gammagion Cross, perhaps I have the wrong term.  I thought it was basically a "voided" cross (think four right angles coming together in the middle but not touching).  I guess I never associated it with a swastica (still don’t really see the relationship), but if you think it best to avoid it, I will.

 

I’m with Everett, Phil.  I really like that with the Caterburry Crosses!  Of course, some may think it looks "too busy," but that could be resolved by reducing them in size a tad (although I personally like it the way it is).

 

Comments and suggestions are, as always, hereby solicited.  But IMHO, this one looks like the "test subject" for my handy, dandy…REFRIGERATOR!

 

Oh, yeah, aside from the type of cross for a crest (I am looking for a fairly simple cross with equal arms), what about the general idea of Luther’s Seal centered on a cross with a stole draped over the cross arms?

 
PBlanton
 
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PBlanton
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17 March 2007 22:35
 

Fr. William,

Is this what you were wanting for a crest?

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e221/pblanton/HenryCrest.jpg

I kinda like it…it’s purdy…:D

 

Take care,

 
 
Trent
 
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Trent
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17 March 2007 23:43
 

Phil,

What clipart and software do you use?  Some of the clipart looks like AG stuff, but where do you get the rest.

 

Thanks for the the shield you made me.  I colored it in MS paint, but it looks all spotty.  So I didn’t post it, but it at least let me get a look at what the arms look like on an Nguni shield.

 
WBHenry
 
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WBHenry
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17 March 2007 23:49
 

Phil,

Now we’re cookin’ with gas!  Cross, Luther rose, and wreath look great.  However, the draped material is reminiscent of the way a large cross might be "covered" during Lent.  (This is often used as a symbol of Good Friday, and this method of display is used when a cross is just too large to be veiled.)  This website shows a traditional stole:

 

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14301a.htm

 

As stated in the article, the stole is worn over the shoulders (behidn the neck) and drops straight down the front.  Since this is the primary symbol of one who is ordained, and since red is the color used for ordination (at least in the Lutheran church), that’s probably what I would want to go for.  (When a fringe is added to a red stole on the ends, it is traditionally red or black.)

 

Although the color of the stole is the important thing (as it denotes the season of the Church Year), the ends of the stole usually have Christian symbols applied to them (not to mention a cross in the center, over the neck).  Since this would be on a crest, symbols would probably be too small to be seen, while, of course, the cross on the neck would be behind the Luther Rose and out of sight anyway.

 

Sorry, I tend to go on.  What you have done is wonderful and is another giant leap forward on the quest for an achievement!  Many thanks to you!

 
WBHenry
 
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WBHenry
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17 March 2007 23:51
 

Hurry up and fix it, Trent.  We all want to see!

 
ESmith
 
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ESmith
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18 March 2007 10:58
 

FatherWilliam57 wrote:

As for the Gammagion Cross, perhaps I have the wrong term.  I thought it was basically a "voided" cross (think four right angles coming together in the middle but not touching).  I guess I never associated it with a swastica (still don’t really see the relationship), but if you think it best to avoid it, I will.


The gammadion (aka cross gammadion, tetragammadion or Fylfot) quite simply, is a swastika.  It’s name comes from the geek letter gamma (Γ), each arm is made of one gamma… there is a little information HERE.  You must have been thinking of a Gammadia.  Which appears on wikipedia as an alternate name for a cross voided, although I’ve never heard of that before nor is it in Parker (but neither of these sources are complete or 100% reliable).

 

Hope that helps some.

 

Oh, I might suggest also against a cross voided in your crest… in many cases it would just disappear against the background! :eek:

 
WBHenry
 
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WBHenry
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18 March 2007 13:03
 

Thar ya be!  Gammadia!  (Guess my fingers were typing faster than I was thinking.  Not only that, I see I mispelled gammadion in my original post as well.  They say that the mind is the second thing to go…)  But your point about it "disappearing" in a crest is well taken.  Thank you!

 
PBlanton
 
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PBlanton
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18 March 2007 18:24
 

FatherWilliam57 wrote:

Now we’re cookin’ with gas! Cross, Luther rose, and wreath look great. However, the draped material is reminiscent of the way a large cross might be "covered" during Lent.

Glad you like it! :D)

Take care,

 
 
ESmith
 
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ESmith
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18 March 2007 19:18
 

PBlanton wrote:

Glad you like it! :D I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about the "resurrection cross". Is this more like what you had in mind?


I like this, but I think it looks a bit more like a badge than a crest, perhaps eliminating the wreath and/or somehow working in a wider base (so that it seems more solidly placed on the helm).  Perhaps a cavalry cross:

http://www.heraldicclipart.com/catalog/cross-014.GIF

 

And from an aesthetics POV I would suggest making the cross some tincture other than Argent.  Gules is a nice passionate color, and Azure would compliment the trends I’ve been seeing in the shield.

 
WBHenry
 
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WBHenry
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18 March 2007 20:24
 

Phil:

OK, that’s the idea!

 

Everett,

 

I take your point about the style of coloring of the cross for a crest.  If you both use the following website as a reference, then I guess I can get my point across without confusion:

 

http://www.theweebsite.com/heraldry/charges_crosses.html

 

A Latin cross would give additional height, allowing for a longer (and perhaps more realistic looking) stole.  If you both think it is a good idea to incorporate the coloring of the shield, then perhaps a Latin cross gyronny in Azure and Argent (I’m talking about a cross such as the one on the shield at the top right hand corner of the webpage above…did I blazon it correctly?).

 

Maybe with a taller cross, the wreath would be a bit of "overkill."  I’m not sure at this point.  But if the stole were longer, although it may be too small for appropriate charges on the ends, we could always go with black fringe or tassels and black orphrey banding to make it look more "stole-like."

 

As always, you both give me something more to think about each time.  I thank you for your help and for making me carefully think this through.

 
Andrew J Vidal
 
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Andrew J Vidal
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18 March 2007 20:39
 

I’d have to say Father William that your design is coming along quite nicely!  I would also say that these discussions are an excellent example of the benefits of membership vs. welcomed guest.

For your crest, I would also suggest the Latin Cross, although I’m a bit biased towards them!  (Four in my own achievment;) )

 
WBHenry
 
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WBHenry
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18 March 2007 20:50
 

Andrew,

I’ve not had occasion to tell you, but I do admire your achievement.

 

Yes, the "benefits of membership" are quite apparent to me.  I have been wondering if anyone has gone through this "design phase" in less than 100 posts! wink

 

Enjoy what’s left of the weekend!

 

Pastor William

 
PBlanton
 
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PBlanton
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18 March 2007 21:12
 

Fr. William,

Before I take a stab at another emblazonment, what is "orphrey banding"? Are you referring to the banding at the bottom of the stole just above the tassels, like this:

 

http://i16.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/90/5f/49b5_1.JPG

 

BTW, I like the idea of a cross gyronny. I’ll try it with and without the wreath. Perhaps you will want the latest attempt as a badge? I do really like the look of it.

 

Take care,

 
 
WBHenry
 
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WBHenry
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18 March 2007 21:25
 

I agree.  We should at least keep that in the "badge file" for future reference.

As for orphrey banding, you are correct.  There are various arrangements used for this type of banding:  one at the bottom of each end of the stole, two or three bands evenly spaced along each side of the stole, etc.  The following website would give you a couple examples:

 

http://almy.com/qsbroadstoles.html

 

I also think Everett is on to something with the Latin cross gyronny.  Should be quite spectacular and compliment the shield nicely.  I can hardly wait to see the next installment of "Have Shield, Will Travel"!

 
PBlanton
 
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PBlanton
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18 March 2007 21:51
 

OK, so on to the next installment for your viewing pleasure:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e221/pblanton/HenryCrest2.jpg http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e221/pblanton/HenryCrest3.jpg

Is this about right or should the banding be a little wider?

 

I hope you like…

 

Take care,