One other thing: I know you explained using a bishop, but if this is a "manly man’s club," why not use the king instead? After all, there would be a cross on the crown, right?
Wonderful suggestion and a way to retain a cross! I would prefer the three tuns to dice. I think that dice on the arms would give the wrong impression about the society.
Jonathan R. Baker;43214 wrote:
The crosses were really only put there as placeholders…
Which is exactly the point I was making about using crosses as heraldic filler.
:cool: Very nice design! :cool:
If I could make a suggestion, I would keep the griffins on the Gules instead of letting them extend onto the pale. (I had something in my mind about going beyond the pale, but as often happened to Jack Aubrey, the thought never completely developed.)
David Pritchard wrote:
Why must we in heraldry feel compelled to fill every empty space with a cross, thus rendering them as meaningless as the overused green wreath encircling a crest?
Ouch! That hurt…:cry:
The idea of a chess king instead of the bishop is great! As for the chief, I think either tuns or dice would look equally nice.
Jonathan R. Baker;43214 wrote:
**looks over his shoulder to make sure his wife isn’t reading this**
That’s a different thread: "For All the Married Guys…" under General Discussion (also known as "She Who Must Be Obeyed" and "She Who Will Not Be Ignored").
I also think David is right: Let’s see the tuns! You’ve already got the tobacco leaves in the crest. (Let’s remember the four basic food groups: Caffine, nicotine, sugar, and preservatives. Die young, leave a beautiful corpse. Hey, there’s a good motto! )
P.S. - Hey, Phil, it is fun being on the other side of the drafting table, isn’t it?
Is that not an interesting way to depict the tuns! I was thinking of the tuns upright to allow the contents to ferment but you placed them ready to be rolled out and consumed by an impatient membership. Now that is a manly society!
At this point, I’m a little concerned about "balance." Try this on for size: Lower the griffins further towards base, and make the sable chief a tad wider. If I read correctly earlier, you were going for chief wavey to represent "cigar smoke" (and other carcinogens). Since the tobacco leaves are now in the crest, perhaps a plain chief would serve better. Also, since I am not familiar with all existing charges, is there a "profile" for tuns which might show an end of the cask, perhaps with a tap? Just thinking out loud….
Yes, David, but if it is already tapped and ready for pouring, it becomes a manly man society!
What about just a single tun in chief? (I say tounge in cheek.)
Now that’s a manly tun compared to those smaller, less-than-manly barrels…:lol:
OK, sorry, I’m operating on very little sleep here. Bear with me, please.
With smaller griffins
[Edit] I take a break to watch 24 and you guys kept going without me.
To be honest, I think the Tun and the sable chief can be left out entirely and the arms would look fantastic.
Another idea would be to have the griffens each standing on a cask
Something like this:
Phil has the right idea…no "quarter kegs" for this group, just bring on the big boy! I think the solitary (and larger) "tun" would be better.
Colin may be right about losing the chief (I kind of like it myself, but that’s just me). Griffins doing the log-roll with tuns…why does this remind me of plate-spinners on Ed Sullivan? But it could add a bit of levity to the arms of a club that likes to let "the good times roll." (Sorry, that one slipped out…)
Not to go against the "simpler is better rule," but, Phil, what if a pair of dice, perhaps one die on each side of the tun, were added? Don’t want to overcrowd things, but it would be another reinforcement of the "gaming" theme. Just a thought. (Oh, and thanks for "widening" the chief; I thought it was a bit small before. And lowering the "dueling griffins" and placing them on the same plain as the chess piece reinforces what they are "battling" over. Again, IMHO.)
I like the larger tun. Looks much better, I think.
As for the chief, I think I’d like to keep it. I know that there are the tobacco leaves in the crown, but that is subtle enough that I like having the cloud of smoke at the top of the shield as well.
I’m really pretty happy with how this is turning out, but the shield is turning out rather dark. Perhaps we should just go with straight gules, like Joe suggested earlier, or maybe we could work some gold into the design.
What do you all think?
Brightened up a little bit with fimbriated pale and chief:
With the dice for comparison:
I don’t think I care for the dice, as I think it makes it feel too "modern." I know, dice are the oldest gaming implement known to man, but they don’t really have that "traditional" feel. It also makes the shield too busy, in my opinion.
Anyway, what do you guys think of the gold and the brighter red?
The wavy cheif makes me think of water, not smoke.
How about two fighting game cocks?
Did you consider leaving the red field blank?
I worked up some stuff with the tun and tobacco plants in chief last night. Then I changed the tun to a cup. I will post it when I get home from work.
Actually, the griffins were one thing I wasn’t really set on. I just put them on there to see how to combatant creatures would look. Someone had suggested lions earlier, but I’ll probably run that decision by the other members of the club as it wasn’t really a part of our initial ideas.