I’m still a noob, and I was wondering:

Where do we in the us register arms?

What’s the point if there’s no legal process?

Would these be legal to have say on a tat/shirt if one traveled to europe?

Would It be proper to have a separate crest to note ties to a group, or to add a badge/slogan/motto?(by ties to a group, I mean a group one takes pride in, that’s not military per se (E.G. church, militias, societies, etc. )

Would it be bad etiquette to get arms as a tattoo?

Should inheritance be done with a crest change only, a shield change, or what?

If my maternal arms had a helmet argent in profile and my father had no arms, what would that make my helmet?(not sure on this one in more than one way)

Does anyone know A good site to search arms by name and/or surname?(before you chew me out. this is for design research only)

Where do you guys learn this stuff? It’s fascinating, and I’d love to make my studies of heraldry serious (though not a career)

Thanks, (and apologies).

mike_mal wrote:

I’m still a noob, and I was wondering:

Would these be legal to have say on a tat/shirt if one traveled to europe?

You may use your arms all you want while travelling through wherever you want- if you actually start to reside in a country with heraldic laws (such as Scotland), then you’d have to start obeying them.  Nobody worries about tourists.

Quote:

Would it be bad etiquette to get arms as a tattoo?

Yes.  It would be akin to declaring yourself to be your own personal property, which would be odd.

Quote:

If my maternal arms had a helmet argent in profile and my father had no arms, what would that make my helmet?

Helmets in most jurisdictions are generally uncontrolled, so you may choose whatever helmet you wish.

Cheers,

mike_mal wrote:

I’m still a noob, and I was wondering:

Where do we in the us register arms?

We in the USA register arms in the USA and in other countries. For foreign registration, see:

http://www.heraldrysociety.us/ForeignRegistration/

For USA registration, see:

# United States Heraldic Registry

# New England Historic Genealogical Society Committee on Heraldry

# Augustan Society

# The American College of Heraldry

mike_mal wrote:

What’s the point if there’s no legal process?

To make sure that your claim that you are using arms is recorded.  This may be important in the future if there is legal protection, or to resolve disputes informally with others.

mike_mal wrote:

Would these be legal to have say on a t-shirt if one traveled to europe?

In some places. If in Scotland and you display someone else’s arms, which is considered an injury to the real armiger, then you could be in violation.  Other’s may know more…

mike_mal wrote:

Would It be proper to have a separate crest to note ties to a group, or to add a badge/slogan/motto?

Yes.

mike_mal wrote:

Would it be bad etiquette to get arms as a tattoo?

All depends where the tatto is. :p

mike_mal wrote:

Should inheritance be done with a crest change only, a shield change, or what?

Both are inherited.  Why would you change them?

mike_mal wrote:

If my maternal arms had a helmet argent in profile and my father had no arms, what would that make my helmet?

The helm’s in your parents arms have no bearing on yours.

mike_mal wrote:

Does anyone know A good site to search arms by name and/or surname?

There are no such think as surname arms.  These sites are rippoffs.

Quote:

Yes. It would be akin to declaring yourself to be your own personal property, which would be odd.

it would? I thought it would be declaring yourself loyal to your bloodline. I know some people who reccomend it, and I’m in the final stages of designing my arms before registering, but once I have them registered I want them as a tat [/ramble]

Michael Swanson wrote:

We in the USA register arms in the USA and in other countries. For foreign registration, see:

http://www.heraldrysociety.us/ForeignRegistration/

For USA registration, see:

# United States Heraldic Registry

# New England Historic Genealogical Society Committee on Heraldry

# Augustan Society

# The American College of Heraldry

 

To make sure that your claim that you are using arms is recorded. This may be important in the future if there is legal protection, or to resolve disputes informally with others.

as for denoting ties, do I change both of those parts, or have whole separate arms? Yes doesn’t clarify much.

Quote:

There are no such think as surname arms. These sites are rippoffs.

Which is why the edit. I want examples of what was prevalent among german-americans and germans while designing my arms. I want mine to look deutschisch. I know there’s no such thing.

mike_mal wrote:

it would? I thought it would be declaring yourself loyal to your bloodline.

If you follow the British tradition, then arms are personal property- these are YOUR arms, not the arms of your bloodline.  So you would be declaring loyalty to yourself.

I’m not sure what I follow, but I’m primarily german by blood ( Irish is a close second) And I think I read that according to german tradition, arms are shared by close relatives. But considering that I am designing arms, I’m not sure. The intent with the tat is to show pride and loyalty to my heritage.

Mike, I think the ‘tat’ question isn’t as strict as some would have you believe.

Personally I think tats are rather ugly, but that is a personal preference and therefore has no bearing on whether you should or shouldn’t.

Indeed many people get tats of all kinds of things. I would no more think that you were the sole possessor of Jesus Christ if you had a crucifix tattooed on you than I would that you were proclaiming yourself your own property if you had your arms on you.

While I understand what Darren is saying I can not go to the extent that he does in saying that having a tat of your arms on you is akin to saying that you have treated your body as your luggage, which also may have the arms and therefore declaring yourself your own property.

Again I do not like tats and would never recommend someone get them, but I can’t see a heraldic, reasonable reason why you couldn’t… unless maybe you were British and/or subscribed to the British method of doing things, which being German you are not the one and as an American do not have to on the other.

Also Mike not all of us subscribe to the British tradition that arms are merely personal property and that in fact is a clear indication of a bloodline. Just a few weeks ago there was a small discussion on some Eastern European nation (I cant remember which…look back in our previous discussions) that in fact does not do so, as they do not, or was that did not…, anyway do not hold to inheritance by primogeniture, which, as described and written by Joe Americans never have either, so that has swayed me away from the idea of differencing for cadency myself.

The point being that it does indicate your bloodline in a way and is personal property as well.

Now people like me also think that it should, or at least could, be an artistic autobiography of sorts (best exemplified by badges I think), but that is me and not everyone holds to that philosophy.

Quote:

Would It be proper to have a separate crest to note ties to a group, or to add a badge/slogan/motto?

You might display the badge of your clan, and also have personal arms.  It is not usually proper to assume two coats of arms.

Michael Swanson wrote:

You might display the badge of your clan, and also have personal arms.  It is not usually proper to assume two coats of arms.

I’m reading his question a bit differently: mile_mal, if you want to have a badge made of your crest and wear it, well, why not? It certainly is in practice amongst people of Scots heritage (although most of them wear their clan badge).

If you belong to a nobiliary society or fraternity or whatever whose decorations and awards would not normally be displayed with your CoA, or with whom a different motto might be appropriate, then I have read that it’s acceptable use to add those to your achievement for that particular purpose.

As an instance (as I understand it): I am a Freemason, 32nd degree Scottish Rite, Knight Templar (York Rite) a Past Master of my blue lodge and a Shriner. If, for some reason, I were to display my arms for Masonic purposes, I could add the collar and jewels relative to those honors to my achievement. Just as I am entitled to write P.M., 32deg, K.T., Noble AAONMS behind my name.

But as I wouldn’t change my name, neither would I change my CoA or crest. The entire achievement is the same in my view, if not in law, as my signature. And when I’m not doing Masonic stuff, I wouldn’t display the Masonic stuff. Just as I don’t add that whole line of letters behind my name when I sign a check.

Is that what you were getting at? If so, the short answer is-one shield, one crest, many alternative uses.

Quote:

Would It be proper to have a separate crest to note ties to a group, or to add a badge/slogan/motto?

I would have to agree with the above, if you’ve earned the rights in a fraternity of some kind, you can add them to your achievement, though I think most would choose not to.

In my view, it is not appropriate, and it certainly isn’t customary, to display insignia of private organizations—including insignia of position or rank in such societies—as part of a personal achievement of arms.  As part of a bigger composition like a bookplate, yes.  As an element of the achievement itself, no.  For a further explanation, members can see the thread on orders and decorations in the Code of Conduct section in the members area.

Of course, in this country no one can stop anyone from doing as they like, but as I observed in an earlier iteration of this discussion, no one can stop you from wearing black dress socks with sandals and shorts or eating your peas off a knife, either.

Joseph McMillan wrote:

....no one can stop you from wearing black dress socks with sandals and shorts or eating your peas off a knife, either.

Unless you’re married.

I can’t go into much detail ... but akin to crusaders adding symbols of their holy war to their arms.

Ties to something that is personally important, yet doesn’t grant honors on a heraldic level. It has historical precedents, but I can’t list them other than that one off the top of my head. As for tat/badge use, Patrick Williams got the idea.